Airport PCN

froe

Hello everyone - I received a parking charge notice in the post recently from APCOA, alleging a breach of the terms and conditions of use at Luton Airport for dropping someone off outside the designated parking area. I read in the beginners guide that I should send off a first appeal, but noticed that 17 days separated the date of the contravention and the date of issue of the notice (not including the number of days it took to reach me in the post), which I gather might be useful "If they are a firm which alleges 'keeper liability' under the POFA 2012" - hopefully someone can advise me on the best way to proceed.

arabesque_101

In order to establish keeper liability pursuant to paragraph 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, the notice to keeper must be delivered to the address of the keeper within 14 days, starting on the day after the day on which the notice was "incurred".

So if you received your notice after this period, then the Operator cannot claim keeper liability against you. In that case, you can add this point to the bottom of your appeal to keeper that you can obtain from the NEWBIES sticky that is maintained by the experienced forum members. In addition, the airport also is not relevant land under the POFA, so you can add a point for that well. Or if they have squeaked under the 14 days, just add the second point.

4) Keeper liablity under POFA
- The Notice to Keeper does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4, Subparagraph 9 (4)-(5) because the letter was not received by the keeper within the relevant period.
- Airport land is not 'relevant land' as it is already covered by statutory bylaws and so is specifically excluded from 'keeper liability' under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As I am the registered keeper I am not legally liable as this Act does not apply on this land. I put the Operator to strict proof otherwise if they disagree with this point and would require them to show evidence including documentary proof from the Airport Authority that this land is not already covered by bylaws.

Dee140157

It is also worth doing a search for APCOA Luton to get a drift of what others have written if you want further ideas of what to write. This occurs fairly regularly.

HO87

arabesque_101 wrote: »

In order to establish keeper liability pursuant to section 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act, the notice to keeper must be delivered to the address of the keeper within 14 days, starting on the day after the day on which the notice was "incurred".

So if you received your notice after this period, then the Operator cannot claim keeper liability against you. In that case, you can add this point to your appeal to keeper that you can obtain from the NEWBIES sticky that is maintained by the experienced forum members. In addition, the airport also is not relevant land under the POFA, so you can add a point for that well. Or if they have squeaked under the 14 days, just add the second point.

4) Keeper liablity under POFA
- The Notice to Keeper does not comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule 4, Subparagraph 9 (4)-(5) because the letter was not received by the keeper within the relevant period.
- Airport land is not 'relevant land' as it is already covered by statutory bylaws and so is specifically excluded from 'keeper liability' under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. As I am the registered keeper I am not legally liable as this Act does not apply on this land. I put the Operator to strict proof otherwise if they disagree with this point and would require them to show evidence including documentary proof from the Airport Authority that this land is not already covered by bylaws.

Presumably you are referring to Schedule 4, as opposed to s.4 which deals with the destruction, use and retention of fingerprints?

To clarify, APCOA dropped the use of POFA at Luton and Birmingham - allegedly - in the early autumn last year as a result of it being repeatedly pointed out that POFA cannot be applied as a result of there being byelaws in force at both airports. This means, as suggested, that the airports are not "relevant land". The fact that APCOA's notice was served "late" is therefore irrelevant. However, there remain plenty of other issues upon which APCOA's case may be hung up and these may be summarised as:

a. That they lack the rights, or sufficient rights, to be able to issue notice to motorists.
b. That they lack the rights, or sufficient rights, to pursue debts or issue proceedings in their own rights.
c. That their charge does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of their or their principal's loss.
d. The charge is therefore a penalty
e. Their signage is deficient both in size, location and content to be adequate enough to form the basis of a contract.

Appeal to them (knowing they will reject it), obtain a POPLA code and then ace them at POPLA - actually there have been a number of cases in recent weeks where APCOA have withdrawn matters before POPLA - presumably to save themselves the fee.

nigelbb

If APCOA are not invoking POFA 2012 & keeper liability then their charge should be addressed to the driver. Unfortunately they don't know the identity of the driver (unless you tell them). This point is all that is necessary.

arabesque_101

Hi froe, well three responses from three forum members and three different answers. They are all probably valid and would be successful, but I thought I'd link you to this recent post of someone this year who appealed regarding Apcoa and Luton airport and was successfully in having Apcoa withdraw the charge before it went to Popla. This gives you something more tangible to go by. See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4898841

HO87

arabesque_101 wrote: »

Hi froe, well three responses from three forum members and three different answers.

Perhaps you might want to view them as being complementary rather than different.

arabesque_101 wrote: »

They are all probably valid and would be successful

With respect, at least two of the "forum members" you have referred to have been involved directly in dealing with private parking matters for some considerable time and have amassed a substantial experience in the matter. Not that fresh approaches aren't welcome but our recommendations are based on what we know works.

arabesque_101 wrote: »

...but I thought I'd link you to this recent post of someone this year who appealed regarding Apcoa and Luton airport and was successfully in having Apcoa withdraw the charge before it went to Popla. This gives you something more tangible to go by. See https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4898841

And why would the suggestions we have provided be any less tangible?

froe

Thank you to everyone who has posted a reply; would it be correct to say that since the appeal to apcoa will be rejected I should send a reply as per the beginners guide (I noticed that on the thread that arabesque_101 posted someone objected to the inclusion of the part mentioning harassment)? Also, should the letter be handwritten or is printing acceptable; and when it comes to posting, is 1st class with free proof of postage sufficient?

da_rule

Printed is fine, you don't even have to really sign it, just put a squiggle.

Leave the harassment bit in.

First class with proof of postage is the way to go.

froe

Hello everyone - I have now received the letter from APCOA rejecting my appeal, along with a POPLA appeal form and code. I would like to know if I should appeal in line with the replies to this thread and the example provided in the FAQ regarding APCOA, but also noticed that since I started this thread in May, "A rebuttal to include in any POPLA appeal now (June 2014 onwards) regarding 'PE v Beavis' and about any reference to 'commercial justification'" has appeared. Should I include this or is it not relevant to APCOA?
Thank you,

Redx

here is a recently approved popla appeal for luton

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4992411

or here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4964007