driving slow : your views ?

Nearly_Old

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Ah well, so long as the coroners on my side, it's all good then.

Err no your view is the exact opposite of the police and the coroner - I thought is not good enough the requirement is to check that the lane is clear not that you thought it was clear. Having attended numerous fatal accidents, produced expert witness statements and appeared as an expert witness I have just about dealt with most situations. In serious accidents the actions of any vehicle changing lanes, either pulling out to overtake, entering/exiting from/to a slip road come under very close scrutiny. In the majority of cases the driver changing lanes was the one either prosecuted or the one the insurers found mainly to blame. Continuous CCTV coverage of certain sections of the motorway network just shows that in general drivers have no lane discipline.

Unfortunately I had to drive the A1 regularly from Yorkshire to Scotland and on average I would expect at least 5 or 6 vehicles to pull out with no signal, etc causing me to brake hard on each journey. When it is a line of 9 or 10 trucks I was taught long ago to just watch the front wheels as they will move before the indicator blinks.

brat

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

I see them all the time. Average cameras are in most roadworks I regularly travel through. I guess I must be unsafe, as I see them, you're safe as you don't?

I was meaning the gatso type camera (as distinct from the specs average speed ones). Gatsos (or similar) are not used on the motorway network anymore, probably due to the fallout from TRL595. But there is no reason to suppose that the effects that caused gatsos to be unsafe on the motorway should somehow disappear when used on an A road.

nobbysn*ts

Nearly_Old wrote: »

..............I was taught long ago to just watch the front wheels as they will move ..................

I agree entirely. Read the road, anticipate the vehicle you're overtaking, not plough on stating you don't need to, works for me.

brat

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Not if you believe you have a god given right to overtake regardless, and everyone else has to carry you through, so they are obliged to ensure your safety and progress, at a cost to their own. If it's not safe, they are obliged to make it safe for you.

As you agree, It's a driver's duty to maximise their safety and that of others on the motorway. Safety must never be sacrificed for any other advantage.
So, if a driver fails to anticipate that a vehicle may pull out on you and mitigate your overtaking speed accordingly, they are sacrificing safety for another perceived advantage.

nobbysn*ts

brat wrote: »

I was meaning the gatso type camera (as distinct from the specs average speed ones). Gatsos (or similar) are not used on the motorway network anymore, probably due to the fallout from TRL595. But there is no reason to suppose that the effects that caused gatsos to be unsafe on the motorway should somehow disappear when used on an A road.

Maybe they're not used, maybe they are, I don't know, I don't speed, but they are certainly signposted frequently, and the boxes are still on a lot of gantries, so the illusion they are there certainly is true on most motorways.

brat

Nearly_Old wrote: »

Err no your view is the exact opposite of the police and the coroner - I thought is not good enough the requirement is to check that the lane is clear not that you thought it was clear. Having attended numerous fatal accidents, produced expert witness statements and appeared as an expert witness I have just about dealt with most situations. In serious accidents the actions of any vehicle changing lanes, either pulling out to overtake, entering/exiting from/to a slip road come under very close scrutiny. In the majority of cases the driver changing lanes was the one either prosecuted or the one the insurers found mainly to blame. Continuous CCTV coverage of certain sections of the motorway network just shows that in general drivers have no lane discipline.

Unfortunately I had to drive the A1 regularly from Yorkshire to Scotland and on average I would expect at least 5 or 6 vehicles to pull out with no signal, etc causing me to brake hard on each journey. When it is a line of 9 or 10 trucks I was taught long ago to just watch the front wheels as they will move before the indicator blinks.

The point is that we have a duty to ourselves and others to understand and respond to what we know or can anticipate to happen on the road. Some of these behaviours may be careless or dangerous, but we have a responsibility to mitigate them if they can reasonably be anticipated. Road safety works best when both parties try to avoid collisions, rather than placing your entire trust in another person not doing wrong.

Nearly_Old

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

I agree entirely. Read the road, anticipate the vehicle you're overtaking, not plough on stating you don't need to, works for me.

Err no - all it means is that I can get the brakes on with ABS when some idiot going at 50 starts to pull out when I'm about 10m behind them. Not a case of them not checking as its obvious that they haven't even looked - see it all the time.

nobbysn*ts

Nearly_Old wrote: »

Err no - all it means is that I can get the brakes on with ABS when some idiot going at 50 starts to pull out when I'm about 10m behind them. Not a case of them not checking as its obvious that they haven't even looked - see it all the time.

Fair enough, you get in that position, all I'm saying is I don't seem to, maybe you're very unlucky, maybe I'm not. Who knows. I won't push an overtake if I don't feel it's safe, I won't ever expect anyone to escort me past, and it seems to work for me.

brat

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Maybe they're not used, maybe they are, I don't know, I don't speed, but they are certainly signposted frequently, and the boxes are still on a lot of gantries, so the illusion they are there certainly is true on most motorways.

Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of temporary cameras placed at temporary roadworks rather than those concealed behind gantries. One of the ways I believe cameras could be used positively is if they were concealed, but adjusted to catch the high end offender, say the 99th/100th percentile speeder. This would remove the fear of being caught out inadvertently and marginally exceeding the limit, it would remove the distractive effect of cameras, and would better target risk.

matttye

brat wrote: »

Yes it is.

What planet are you guys on?? :eek:

No matter what my speed is, the person who is about to overtake should be checking that the overtaking lane is safe to move into before doing so.

There's no possible way of anticipating an overtake when several vehicles are travelling in convoy together at a similar speed.

nobbysn*ts wrote: »

Fair enough, you get in that position, all I'm saying is I don't seem to, maybe you're very unlucky, maybe I'm not. Who knows. I won't push an overtake if I don't feel it's safe, I won't ever expect anyone to escort me past, and it seems to work for me.

I don't "push an overtake if I don't feel it's safe" either - I don't expect other drivers to be utter morons.

When a driver does something completely unexpected, you can't always anticipate it. It's like if you're driving normally along a road and somebody on the opposite side of the road suddenly swerves into you. You're stuffed. Nothing you can do about it.

There is only a certain amount you can do, but you have to rely on other drivers not to do stupid things, on some level.