Under age drinking

ginger

After yet another wonderful night I thought I would seek some moral support from this wonderful forum.
Briefly, my daughter is 15, for the past year she has sporadically come home the worse for wear with drink. We have had arguments and fights, some of which have involved the police as she had assaulted me, and some of which she has left the house for the night and we have had to call the police to find her. All of these involve alcohol. We are not non drinkers or prudes in any way, but these incidents are getting us down and we feel as if we have no control anymore. She does not respect rules of the house and if we ground her for any reason, she will not obey it. I am at the end of my tether and have said she will have to leave home (an empty threat I would add). My husband is terrified she will do this!! We have tried to involve social services but becuase she refuses to speak to them they will not do anything. Normally without alcolhol she is a nice sort of kid - we have had problems with school with her not buckling down but I thought we were getting through to her.
Does anyone else have this probem. Accordingly to the police (who are really sympathetic but their hands are tied), this is a massive problem which basically we just have to work through. The alternative is to have her arrested for breach of the peace!
We think we know who is supplting the alcolhol, but is is proving it. He is only 16 and I have spoken to him about this but I am aware that we cannot threaten him or it would look bad on us. Tonight, she actually rang he police and said I had slapped her - luckily a lie which the police beleived otherwise I could have ended up in custody.
What the hell do I do next????

L

pboae

We've had a similar problem with my niece. There's 2 things I would suggest, first, do you have a local children's hospital? The one my niece went to has a drug and alcohol clinic. Any child that gets taken there drunk has to go to the clinic afterwards, but I think you can get referrals as well.

Second, if you know where they are getting alcohol from, go round to the store/pub and tell them. My sis took my niece down to the store and told the manager to make sure she was never served again. Can you take a photo of the boy you suspect to the store too and tell them he is only 16? They won't be willing to lose their licence over it.

grex80

You have to ask yourselves a few hard questions -

WHERE is she getting the money?
WHY are you letting her out?
WHY not throw her out? It may be the shock she needs.
WHY is she drinking in the first place?
WHY don't you just give her a jolly good hiding and teach her to show some bloody respect?

pboae

grex80 are you really that naive?

1) If they don't have their own money they either get it off their mates or failing that they nick stuff.
2) Social services told my sister that she could be arrested for false imprisonment if she forcibly kept her daughter in the house (i.e. locked her in).
3) SS also told her that she couldn't just throw her out, and it was up to sis to make sure she had somewhere to go (but SS wouldn't take her). I also spoke to someone who runs a children's home, who said that it wouldn't work as a short sharp shock anyway, because most of the kids they get in can play the system already, so they just enjoy the kudos it gives them instead.
4) Because it's big and clever, and impresses your friends.
5) Because the police would arrest her for assault.

ginger

Thanks for the replies.
Pboae - you answered all the questions!
She steals money if we withhold pocket money - otherwise I suspect they are stealing the alcohol. She will not stay in if we ground her - again we've tried and ended up with broken locks/door handles. Social services seem to be overwhelmed by this problem and as long as she's not "in danger" they won't do anything.
I've often felt like giving her or the people buying the alcohol a good hiding but now adays kids have more rights than parents and you are right it would be me that's arrested. I'll try the local hospital but I honestly don't think she will go with me - the only way I think she would go is if the police took her in.
Thanks again.
L

Curious_George_2

seeing as nothing you can do or say to your daughter is going to make any difference (or you would already have done it and we wouldnt be having this conversation) how about this...
since the 21 rule came in, the penalty for serving underage kids alcohol is quite severe, the person who serves can be fined, the shop can be fined and the licence taken away,

now you either need to find out which shop is serving your daughter and her friends and inform them or if you dont think this will do any good,
inform trading standards, they will be round like a shot to do mystery shopper tests on the stores in question,

i used to work in a co-op foodstore and TS would send in kids to try and buy fags and booze ALL THE TIME in an effort to catch us out, they will take you very seriously, even if the manager of your local offy doesnt.

SSB

Hi
What a difficult position you are in, I am sorry to hear about the problems you are having with your daughter at the moment. I have a lot of experience (I work at a hostel for homeless) regarding young people drinking and causing distress to their families.

Unfortunately, there are no easy solutions. If your daughter would admit that she has a problem, then a referral to suitable agencies could be arranged. However, if she feels that she does not have a problem then there would be no point even trying to convince her otherwise. The decision to seek help must come from her own realisation that this level of drinking is undesirable.

Many of the families, whom I have spoken with, stated that the only thing for it was tough love. Do not get drawn into arguments, do not provide money, call the police if needed and do not get involved until your child is ready to co-operate. Sounds like a heartless and horrilbe thing to do but these are often families that have tried everything else.

Sometimes, the young person needs to understand what it means to take full responsibility for his/her actions. I have seen quite a few young people, after having to spend some time at a hostel, who are surprisingly eager to co-operate and discuss their problems with their family.

Do you know why your daughter is drinking? It is possible that this is a reaction to something she has experienced fairly recently. It could also be a truly unpleasant phase she is going through. You will need to decide for how long are you willing to tolerate her behaviour and what is your next step if her drinking does not stop.

Remember, it is not OK for her to assault you. If the assaults continue, keep involving the police and demand anger management training for her. Remember, if things became so intolerable that it is impossible for her to stay at home, Social Services have to step in since she is under 16 and vulnerable.

mishmash

Hi

I have 3 teenagers, so I understand that they are tricky to parent, I am also a child care social worker (though no longer practising in this field).

I do think as a parent, when our children 'go off the rails' we do have to look at ourselves and our parenting skills, harsh but true.

I would agree that adolescant alcohol abuse is widespead and there are many reasons for that, some of which are the culture of drinking we live in as a society and promote, unscrupulous traders who sell to children or adults who are prepared to buy alcohol for children who stand outside shops to ask them.

But in my experience a basic factor is often parenting. If a you give your child the money knowing she may well buy alcohol with it, then regardless of what you say to her you are still allowing her to do this. I know it is difficult if as you say she would steal otherwise, but it is your role as a parent to ensure that there is not money around in the house for her to steal. If she steals from outside the home at some point she will have to face the consequences of her actions.

In response to the discussions on this thread of the role of social services or the possibility of placing your child in the care system, I would question some of the advice given.

In relation to "a good hiding" it is illegal to harm your child in this way, however the law is vauge, there is such thing as reasonable chastisement. This basically means that you can use reasonable force, not leaving marks or using impliments. The false imprisonment thing is also questionable. The law is very cear that a parent must protect their child from harm that is our parental responsability. So grabbing a child who is about to run into a road, or go near a fire is not assault it is keeping them safe, as is attemting to keep a teenager in the house, if you have good reason to believe your daughter would be placing herself at risk, then you can as a parent make reasonable attempts to keep her safe.

In terms of placing her in care, I would agree with the social services that this is not appropriate, for a number of reasons. Firstly she is your child and your responsabity (regardless of how difficult she is), placing her in the care system is likely to cause significant and long term difficulty to her attatchments to you, she will feel rejected and resentfull that will have long lasting implications for your relationship and for her feeling of security and belonging. We know that children in the care system do not fare well, they have (generally) lower academic attainment, lower educational and employment opportunities, higher rates of offending, drug and alcohol misuse, higher rates of teenager pregnancy. This spreads into adulthood with higher rates of custodial sentences, social services involment with their own chidren and so on.

Of course there will be many people who say that they have not turned out like that from growing up in care ( My Dad is one of them) but the facts speak for themselves. Is this what you would want for your child in order for you not to have to parent her anymore?

As a social worker in this area I was asked on a daily basis to place teenagers in care basically because their behaviour had got problematic, and in most cases it is not the best way forward for the child or the family, and kicking her out is not how caring parents behave. Also childrens home cannot use the same sanctions parents can they cannot withhold spends or lock the children in due to the regulation, social care staff do not have a magic wand to make teenagers behave.

It is important that you do take a tough love approach, if she assaults you then report it, if she steals outside the home she will be arrested. Tell her that you are not prepared to contribute to her alcoholism, because you love her and care for her safety. Tell her you will buy her clothes and put money on her phone and make her packed lunches for school, but you will not allow her to have any unsupervised access to money, as a result of her drinking. Also tell her that if she assaults you you will call the police, and that if she is found stealing you will tell the police.

The thing about a tough love approach is that there also has to be love. Think about how you communicate with her. Many parents of teenagers get into battles and the only dialouge is conflict, the "where have you been, where are you going" often because we are worried and stressed we yell and scream at them and wonder why they do this back.

Try and find times, to explain to her you concern for her safety when you are not in conflict. Try and think of all the positive aspects to your daughter, try and praise her as often as you can for somthing (even taking a plate into the kitchen). Also try to make sure you arrange some quality time as a family, nice meal in, and dvd or a girly beauty night, ask her to go shopping for clothes or makeup, take her for coffee. Say that you are missing her and don't like all the conflict ask her to aggree to spend some quality time with you. Tell her you love her and keep telling her.

When she comes home worse for wear, try to stay calm, explain you have been worried and ask her if she is okay, does she need anything, make her some toast and a drink and wait until the next day to speak to her calmly about why her drinking worries you and you are worried that she is at risk while out and drunk.

By shouting when she comes home, you are only increasing the risk of her not coming home at all or staying out later to avoid the confrontation. Also your child is at risk while out and intoxicated, it may well be she has come to some harm or has felt at risk while out drinking, If this is the case and she comes home to conflict she is not going to be able to open up or will not see home as a safe place.

Teenagers often test the barriers and attention seek, it's like toddler taming but with bigger kids and bigger problems. Teenagers I worked with often said how their parents did not care about them as long as they were out of sight they were given money with no questions asked, they would say that they felt their parents were hypocrits, as they would drink to excess out or at home, they would also say that all their parents did was shout and criticise.

Have you called her school to ask how she is doing there, the fact that your child is coming home is a positive, the fact that you are wanting help is also a positive.

I would ask the school or socail services or your gp for parenting support for you and possibly family therapy. To work through this you will all need to change behaviour not just your child.

Sorry if that sounds harsh but in my experience that is the only way forward.

Good luck

Mish

olly300

Curious_George wrote: »

i used to work in a co-op foodstore and TS would send in kids to try and buy fags and booze ALL THE TIME in an effort to catch us out, they will take you very seriously, even if the manager of your local offy doesnt.

In an area where I use to live, which was quite affluent, the local teenagers would ask hang out around the local shops and ask adults who went into them to buy alcohol for them.

If as a responsible adult you refused you got loads off abuse, threats to beat you up and in two cases mugged. [I didn't go in the shops after 2 male house mates who were quite large got abused for refusing to buy kids alcohol.] There were also cases of teenagers breaking shop windows of the shop owners who refused to serve them.

All that happened is the shops would close around 8pm as no one would shop there after this time. However it didn't stop the kids drinking.

dfwz

You said you've argued, shouted and even fought, but have you talked yet ?

Most kids are going to go through something similar to this now, it's a sad reflection of our culture. The solution is mutual trust, teenagers are often confused because they are borderline between kid and adult and they don't believe they are borderline.

Drinking itself is a major issue, but my parents always said they'd much rather I was doing something they disapproved of and was confident I could call them when I was in trouble, instead of being on my own and frightened to call home in case it led to more rows. That's also how I treat my kids, I warn them not to make the mistakes, discuss the consequences with them, but I'm still there when they make the wrong decision.

I'm not advising you do this as I don't know your daughter but it worked for me. In your situation however I would talk to her as an adult and use words like respect a lot.

"I understand that you're an adult now and I respect your decisions, you might make a mistake or two but I'll always be here.

It really worries me though when you're drinking, you don't have to drink too much or even at all to have a good time"

Seriously, I've yet to see a kid controlled by shouting and arguments at that age. They "think" they are adults now and what you think about that is irrelevant to them really. Not ideal and not what most people want to hear, but in my opinion it's important to understand that although your threats are hollow and you see her as a kid, she may not see it the same way.

Teenagers are difficult because they think they are adults but no one else does and they make stupid decisions. Don't try and stop those decisions by force, just give reasonable advice and as that advice turns out to be good repeatedly, you build trust and respect.

poe.tuesday

I must admit that I was exaclty the same as your daughter at that age, I drank, I did drugs, I stole, I was vile and my parents whi were at their wits end with me

what worked for me was when I did come home in this state my mum locked me out, so off I went back to mates houses etc, this however only worked for a short time until the mates/parents of the mates got fed up of me and this had to stop, so I would be back home begging to come in, my mum still refused saying that she had told me if I came home drunk/high that this is what would happen, I did everything from the screaming to the crying to the smashing of windows, I would then walk away not having anywhere to go

Then one night, the stark reality of me being out of it on the streets alone hit home hard, it was not the best of wake up called but it certainly made me see that I was not in control, it certainly was not cool, that I was alone and as for my street cred, I had none.

It may not be the way forward with your daughter as it really does depend on the area that you live in but have you tried to lock her out when she comes home in a state?