Parking Ticket Tribunal Commercial Vehicle Definition

MLowery

Advice is much appreciated. My car is registered with the Inland Revenue as my business vehicle and also with the MOD, stating I am a contractor. When delivering heavy, valuable antiques to a business I parked in a loading bay (commercial). I received a parking ticket by West Sussex Council. What could I expect at the tribunal as they are stating that commercial vehicles should be signed on both sides. Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

forgotmyname

Tell them you deliver high value and restricted items so MUST have a plain vehicle.

Lots of companies use plain white vans to deliver all sorts of stuff.

Buzby

You may find they take the 'commercial' element strictly. A car, used for commercial purposes is irrelevant. A truck or van carrying large and bulky goods requires close proximity. A car with an antique in the boot that can be carried without special handling equipment (trolley, barrow etc) you can use a standard bay.

What the Inland Revenue or MoD think is immaterial to an appeal. A car in a loading bay would be given a few minutes grace at best but this will be rejected if the PA did not witness you doing anything in a few minutes. Any car would be expected to unload, facade the bay and park normally.

arcon5

MLowery wrote: »

Advice is much appreciated. My car is registered with the Inland Revenue as my business vehicle and also with the MOD, stating I am a contractor. When delivering heavy, valuable antiques to a business I parked in a loading bay (commercial). I received a parking ticket by West Sussex Council. What could I expect at the tribunal as they are stating that commercial vehicles should be signed on both sides. Any advice or experience would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Ask them to quote where this rule has come from?

Iceweasel

This subject can be a minefield.

Lots of things to clarify, and the exact words are very important.

You use the word 'car' - but would it by any chance be what many folks call an 'estate car' - a vehicle designed for carrying goods as well as people? No real problem if it's a saloon car, but it would help.

Did the loading bay sign just say 'Loading only' or did it have the only other legal alternative of 'Goods vehicle loading only'?

It must have the man pushing a trolley symbol and those words only - exactly as I have written, with only the first word having a capital letter - anything even slightly different is NOT a loading bay sign, and may as well have been written with a crayon on a scrap of cardboard.

There is no such thing as a commercial vehicle loading bay.

Loads of local authorities get their signs wrong so please check carefully.

AdrianC

I've recently been through this same shenanigans with Herefordshire council. In my case, the bay was signed as "Goods Vehicle only" - and they insisted that a white VW Transporter was a "car" (and thereby didn't qualify) because it had a back seat.

Their rejection letter referred to s58 Goods Vehicles (Licensing of Operators) Act 1995 for the definition. When you look that up, it's so loose as to be meaningless, and to include damn near anything from a Smart car upwards...

“goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted, but does not include a tramcar or trolley vehicle within the meaning of the Road Traffic Act 1988;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1995/23/section/58

In my case, they did eventually drop it, when I sent them a copy of the V5C saying "Body type: Panel van". Without that, I don't know how long they'd have continued to argue it.

Iceweasel

Very interesting Adrian.

A sign saying 'Goods Vehicle only' is not a permitted/approved variant of the official sign as described in diagram 660.4 of TSRGD.

So a letter pointing out that the sign did not comply with the regulations would have been enough to get the ticket cancelled.

Some councils think they can stick up any sign they like that looks a bit similar to the official one.

It must be an approved sign or it means nothing.

AdrianC

Iceweasel wrote: »

Very interesting Adrian.

A sign saying 'Goods Vehicle only' is not a permitted/approved variant of the official sign as described in diagram 660.4 of TSRGD.

I was paraphrasing - it was a 30min loading bay that specifically name-checked "Goods Vehicles". The precise wording wasn't my issue with it, and to challenge it on that would have somehow felt like accepting that I wasn't actually in full accordance with the sign.

<checks streetview>
"Goods vehicles
loading only
Mon-Sat 8am-6pm
30 min max (all bar "30" is blurred on streetview)
No returns
within 1hr"

Nodding_Donkey

I wouldn't worry too much OP. Councils say all sorts of things and make up all sorts of silly rules that the tribunal regularly throw out. From what is or isn't a commercial vehicle to how long you are allowed to take loading on a yellow line. I've even had Camden Council try to say that you can spend longer loading on a single yellow than a double yellow.

!!!!wits one and all.