British citizen travelling on foreign passport? Visa?

benjus

Thanks for all the comments. The country in question is Bolivia. And yes, I am more concerned about the airline allowing boarding than problems at immigration entering the UK.

Voyager2002

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

Rubbish. As an EEA/CH citizen, he doesn't need a visa. It doesn't matter what travel document he uses, he is still an EEA/CH citizen and therefore allowed to entry and leave as he pleases. I entered the UK once using a German
residence permit which clearly stated my Polish citizenship. EEA/CH citizens simply won't be refused entry unless they pose a threat to public security.



The passport is merely to verify his identity. Of course, it would make sense to carry some proof of his British citizenship in order to avoid delays at passport control, but he is under no obligation to have a visa to enter the UK. In fact, he would be refused a visa on the grounds of not requiring one.


It is worth pointing out that the airline in question will probably want to see proof of his citizenship before allowing him to board. A birth certificate and a copy of his British passport (or the expired one) should do the job.


Amazing how much misinformation is spread on MSE.

As explained by another poster, this is nonsense. Your experience was of travelling within the EU using official documents as evidence of being a national of an EU member state. The situation for non-EU nationals is completely different: someone travelling on a Bolivian or Chinese passport needs a visa to enter the UK, whether or not they are also entitled to a British passport.

littlereddevil

Agreed. To answer your original question if he is travelling to UK on a Bolivian passport then he needs a visa, as a Bolivian.

dzug1

littlereddevil wrote: »

Agreed. To answer your original question if he is travelling to UK on a Bolivian passport then he needs a visa, as a Bolivian.

But the argument is that he is not travelling to the UK on a Bolivian passport. He is travelling with no passport, with evidence of UK citizenship


Not sure I buy it, but it's logical. The airline will really not be happy - and in fact two airlines since there will be a change of planes en route

benjus

I'm just not even sure the British consulate would give him a visa if he's also a British citizen - I don't know how these things work.

It does sound like the best option, if the passport doesn't come through in time, would be to get an emergency travel document and apply for a new passport here. It would cost over £150 in total, but that's better than losing the value of the plane tickets.

In the meantime I'll keep pestering the passport office... I just wish they could give some more concrete information.

peachyprice

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

As we don't know which country he is living in now how can you say this?[/QUOTE

It's an irrelevance. You don't lose your citizenship (in most countries) by simply not living in the country in question. As I said, as an EEA/CH citizen, he can come and go as he pleases irrespective of any other citizenship held.





He will be fine entering the country. They will certainly hold him for further processing, but he has the right to enter the country as a British citizen. There's nothing more to it.


The airline might be funny about it, but preparing as much proof as possible of his citizenship is important.


As for me, the rules apply to me as apply to all other EEA/CH citizens. We have an almost unlimited right to come and go as we please, except in a very few situations. The lack of a travel document does not in itself stop someone from passing through passport control.


The actual passport held is quite an irrelevance, as it is merely a form of identity. What matters at passport control is establishing citizenship. A passport or ID card is the quickest way to do that, but there are also many other ways to establish that.

Great advice for ENTERING the UK and travelling throughout the EU.

Totally irrelevant when trying to LEAVE a non-EU country. You won't get past check-in without either a British passport or an overseas passport with a visa.

Airline check-in staff are not qualified to assess what is an acceptable form of ID to enter every country in the world beyond passport and visa requirements, and why would anyone expect them to be.

PolishBigSpender

!!!!!! wrote: »

Australia don't take your stance
As I said leaving the country with only a valid non-UK passport will be a problem for the OP's son if they do not have the required visa to go with it.

It will not be a problem for any immigration authorities. It may be a problem for the airline, but that's a matter for each airline. Some are known for being less interested than others.

Only for travel within the EEA/CH.

Nonsense. The airline, if satisfied as to someone's citizenship, won't give a monkeys if the person has valid travel documents or not. It's nothing to do with EEA/CH travel or not.

You appear to be fixated on the EEA/CH thing. It may be the case with the EEA/CH but unfortunately the rest of the world is different. If you travel on a passport from X and it requires a visa to get into Y then you will not get on the aircraft. Outside the EEA/CH the only accepted (in 99% of the cases) proof is a valid passport

No. This is an airline issue, and nothing to do with a passport being accepted or not. Someone turning up at the airport with prior arrangement with the airline as to their citizenship will have absolutely no problems getting on the plane.


The rules apply to everyone arriving in the UK irrespective of citizenship. If I travel to the UK and can't prove my Polish citizenship, the carrier is in trouble, just as they're in trouble if a non-EEA/CH citizen arrives.

As explained by another poster, this is nonsense. Your experience was of travelling within the EU using official documents as evidence of being a national of an EU member state. The situation for non-EU nationals is completely different: someone travelling on a Bolivian or Chinese passport needs a visa to enter the UK, whether or not they are also entitled to a British passport.

Wrong. They do not need a visa to enter the UK, as one simply will not be granted to someone who is already an EEA/CH citizen. If you don't believe me, call up the British Embassy in a country of your choice and ask them if they will issue a visa to a British citizen. They'll laugh at you.


Visas simply cannot be issued to a citizen. As a full British citizen, the traveller is exempt from immigration control under the Immigration Act (I forget the year...) and thus is only subjected to an identity check.

Totally irrelevant when trying to LEAVE a non-EU country. You won't get past check-in without either a British passport or an overseas passport with a visa.

Airline check-in staff are not qualified to assess what is an acceptable form of ID to enter every country in the world beyond passport and visa requirements, and why would anyone expect them to be.

Which is why prior arrangements should be made rather than relying on the judgement of the check-in staff. However, someone arriving at the airport properly documented with a multitude of evidence as to their British citizenship would be unlikely to be denied boarding.

Agreed. To answer your original question if he is travelling to UK on a Bolivian passport then he needs a visa, as a Bolivian.

He isn't a Bolivian. He's a British citizen travelling to the UK. In fact, the UK upon arrival will regard him solely as a British citizen and his Bolivian citizenship will be a non issue.


Benjus, the best thing to do is to try and see if you can get a confirmation from the airline that they will allow boarding in this circumstance. He'll need all the proof he can get - his expired passport will be best.


Usually with these things, a non-EU passport combined with an expired EU passport is more than enough proof. They will simply not issue a visa under any circumstance, as it simply isn't permitted under law to do so. He is fully exempt from immigration control as a British citizen, therefore a visa cannot be issued.


To the people claiming otherwise - a passport in itself is merely a travel document. It's not mandatory for British citizens to hold a British passport, unlike many other countries which oblige their citizens to carry their national identity cards if they're entitled to one. Without a passport, someone is still a British citizen.


The difficult issue here is check-in, not immigration control. At all times, he remains a British citizen with the right to enter the UK.


Brits are so clueless about foreign affairs...

benjus

Travelling with his [soon-to-be] expired passport isn't an option as it was sent to the passport office for the renewal.

Anyway, I've emailed the British Consulate to ask what they can suggest. There's still a few weeks to go and I still hope the passport will come through, but it seems like a good idea to have a backup plan.

mgdavid

PolishBigSpender wrote: »

It will not be a problem for any immigration authorities. It may be a problem for the airline, but that's a matter for each airline. Some are known for being less interested than others.


Nonsense. The airline, if satisfied as to someone's citizenship, won't give a monkeys if the person has valid travel documents or not. It's nothing to do with EEA/CH travel or not.



No. This is an airline issue, and nothing to do with a passport being accepted or not. Someone turning up at the airport with prior arrangement with the airline as to their citizenship will have absolutely no problems getting on the plane.


The rules apply to everyone arriving in the UK irrespective of citizenship. If I travel to the UK and can't prove my Polish citizenship, the carrier is in trouble, just as they're in trouble if a non-EEA/CH citizen arrives.



Wrong. They do not need a visa to enter the UK, as one simply will not be granted to someone who is already an EEA/CH citizen. If you don't believe me, call up the British Embassy in a country of your choice and ask them if they will issue a visa to a British citizen. They'll laugh at you.


Visas simply cannot be issued to a citizen. As a full British citizen, the traveller is exempt from immigration control under the Immigration Act (I forget the year...) and thus is only subjected to an identity check.



Which is why prior arrangements should be made rather than relying on the judgement of the check-in staff. However, someone arriving at the airport properly documented with a multitude of evidence as to their British citizenship would be unlikely to be denied boarding.



He isn't a Bolivian. He's a British citizen travelling to the UK. In fact, the UK upon arrival will regard him solely as a British citizen and his Bolivian citizenship will be a non issue.


Benjus, the best thing to do is to try and see if you can get a confirmation from the airline that they will allow boarding in this circumstance. He'll need all the proof he can get - his expired passport will be best.


Usually with these things, a non-EU passport combined with an expired EU passport is more than enough proof. They will simply not issue a visa under any circumstance, as it simply isn't permitted under law to do so. He is fully exempt from immigration control as a British citizen, therefore a visa cannot be issued.


To the people claiming otherwise - a passport in itself is merely a travel document. It's not mandatory for British citizens to hold a British passport, unlike many other countries which oblige their citizens to carry their national identity cards if they're entitled to one. Without a passport, someone is still a British citizen.


The difficult issue here is check-in, not immigration control. At all times, he remains a British citizen with the right to enter the UK.


Brits are so clueless about foreign affairs...

In your dreams and in Utopia but not in the real world. There are so many holes in your lengthy missive that I don't have the time to sift and rebut them. I will just say that the burden of proof lies with the individual; one is only a British Citizen for as long as it can be proven. Generally without proof that is accepted by a specific country you are Stateless and if you get as far as a destination can only then be sent back or claim asylum. That is the foundation for Government placing the onus on the Carrier to check for proof before allowing boarding.

PolishBigSpender

mgdavid wrote: »

In your dreams and in Utopia but not in the real world. There are so many holes in your lengthy missive that I don't have the time to sift and rebut them.

There are no holes. A British citizen remains a British citizen irrespective of any documents held. I do not cease to be a Polish citizen when using my other citizenship for some purposes. The Polish authorities, just like the British authorities to British citizens, regard me as being Polish at all times.


No amount of bluster will change the core fact that a British citizen remains such. A British citizen cannot by nature be issued a visa for the United Kingdom, as they are exempt from control under the relevant Immigration Act.

I will just say that the burden of proof lies with the individual; one is only a British Citizen for as long as it can be proven. Generally without proof that is accepted by a specific country you are Stateless and if you get as far as a destination can only then be sent back or claim asylum.

Now you really are clutching at straws. Many British people have no documentary proof of their citizenship, does it mean that they become automatically stateless? Of course not. They rely on other means of documentation. Someone who doesn't have a British passport but is a British citizen remains a British citizen at all times!


Even on this forum, there are examples of individuals entering the UK without any valid travel documents.

That is the foundation for Government placing the onus on the Carrier to check for proof before allowing boarding.

Wrong. The foundations were laid to prevent people claiming asylum upon arrival. If the airline is satisfied as to the person's British citizenship, then there is no problem. How to satisfy them? Impossible to say, and individuals should contact the relevant carriers to obtain clarification.


The amount of disinformation on this thread is unbelievable.