APCOA (Harpenden Rail Station) - UPDATE: PCN Cancelled!

GHA

Hi all,

Just a quickie - I received a PCN at Harpenden station a few weeks back, and have a couple of options that I'm looking for advice on.

I had bought a parking ticket using their Ring Go service, so didn't have a valid ticket displayed on my dashboard, obviously. HOWEVER;

I was parked in an unmarked Premier Parking bay. There is minimal signage, just a few laminated A4 pieces of paper saying Bay 1, Bay 2, etc. Below most of them is another laminated note saying Premier Parking only. The bay I was parked in, and a few others, didn't have the Premier Parking note.

I have received my Notice to Keeper - should I reply saying that I bought a ticket through the Ring Go service and therefore am disputing the PCN? Or that there was insufficient signage relating to Premier Parking bays? Or mention both reasons?

Thanks in advance...

Coupon-mad

Mention neither reason! Use the template in the NEWBIEs thread.

rdr

I would use the template but add the fact that you had paid and that the bay was not clearly marked.
This is to counter them augueing that they have made an initial loss that they then incured costs pursueing. Not GPEOL is far more powerful if there was no initial loss or if any loss is due to their failures.
They would have made an initial loss if you hadn't paid and, if this station is like my local, the premier spaces are sold on a season ticket to individuals at a premium over the standard spaces, so they could say that they had to refund the leasor of the space because they counldn't use it.
Get photos of the space showing the lack of signage and of others with the signage as well as the general carpark sign.
You will win at POPLA on GPEOL but I think station car park operators may well be more open to a robust initial appeal, and for the extra couple of lines it is worth showing them that not only do you know how to google, but you also understand their business model.

GHA

Hi,

I sent the appeal letter off prior to reading your comments, rdr. In the end I mentioned neither reason. I have now received a reply from APCOA saying that my appeal has been rejected, as I was parked in a premier parking bay.
The letter states that 'the time plate directly behind your vehicle clearly states that the space is for premier permit holders only. It is the drivers responsibility to ensure that they are parked correctly at all times while in the car park as well as for familiarising themselves with the terms and conditions of the car park.'

It was not clearly stated that it was a Premier Parking Bay and I have photographic evidence to demonstrate that. A POPLA form was included in the letter if I want to appeal. Should I use this form or write my own new letter to POPLA?

Incidentally, only last week new road markings have been painted in the Premier Parking Area, as well as a sign on the road saying 'Premier Parking Only.' How convenient!

Thanks

ColliesCarer

The form they have provided needs to accompany your POPLA appeal if you mail it but you are not constrained by it and can just attach it to an appeal letter.
You can also submit a POPLA on-line (I think this is actually POPLA's preferred method).

Regards content - make sure you include the three main winning arguments e.g not a GPEOL, No authority, Inadequate/non compliant signage therefore no contract with driver.
Also as this was a station it might be subject to byelaws and would therefore not be relevant land for POFA to apply regarding keeper liability and if so you would have an additional point.

To find example appeals
- Read the NEWBIES thread post #3 for How to Win at POPLA examples
- follow the link to POPLA decisions and go to last page for recent winners
-use the Search the forum using the search term APCOA POPLA and the station name for threads from others dealing with the same company

GHA

The rejection letter I recieved states:

'APCOA is not liable to justify the charge as section 19.5 of BPA guidelines state, "if the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you sugger. We would not expect this amount to be more than £100. If the charge is more than this, operators must justify it in advance."

Does this affect the GPEOL issue? As a newbie I am most confident about the lack of signage, and my photographs to show this - I am not as clear with the GPEOL and No Authority arguments, although I obviously still want to use them!

Thanks again all

bazster

No, that's cobblers, they are trying to baffle you with BS. Clause 19.5 of the BPA CoP is talking about the operator justifying the charge in advance to the BPA. That is irrelevant as far as you are concerned, and if you challenge the charge (whether to PoPLA or a court of law) on the grounds that it is not a GPEOL then APCOA will be obliged to justify it (which they can't, because it isn't).

ColliesCarer

Yes they both apply and should be included in your POPLA appeal.

You don't need to prove or be confident of the points you include to assert them. It's up to the operator to rebut the points you raise and disprove your assertions.

Operators rarely have the correct legal standing and re GPEOL - the key phrases in the BPA guidelines are

"this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer" This loss has to be as a consequence of the breach

and

"We would not expect this amount to be more than £100" - which doesn't mean they have carte blanche to charge up to £100 without having to justify it - they still have to show the sum (whatever that is ) is a genuine loss suffered as a consequence of the specific breach .

How have they lost the sum they are trying to charge you just because you parked in a bay they say you shouldn't have even if you hadn't already paid for your parking?

arabesque_101

You just add the established legal statements from the links in the newbies thread verbatim. There is no problem with also adding an extra point about your photos and lack of signs.

Also a question for the more experienced members - assuming the OP appealed to the Operator as keeper, and given that this notice was issued at a station, is it worth the OP mentioning the bit about it "not being relevant land" under the POFA?

GHA

I'll post my appeal letter when I'm finished and happy with it (obviously before sending it off!). Thanks for your help and patience so far!

GHA

I have a couple of photos taken at night showing a lack of road markings to indicate the area is for Premier Parking only. APCOA have painted road markings at the entrance to the area less than one week ago - should I take a new photo to show the new markings, and include it at all? I assume I should mention that the road markings have since been updated?

Thanks