Help required for 5 x PCN's for Park Direct UK

reddygirl

I am in desperate need of some help with Park Direct UK and their shambolic ways.

I recently moved into a flat that has allocated parking. When I attended the initial viewing I specifically asked the agent what was the parking situation for visitors and was told simply that visitors were able to park in the spaces marked with a "V". Lovely I thought.

On moving-in day, I was given a residents parking permit by the landlord, and a map showing where my allocated space was.

Three weeks pass, and my partner (who doesn't live with me but visits a couple of times a week) received a parking ticket (21/03/14) on the car. At first we thought perhaps he'd parked in a residents bay but as we didn't' notice the ticket until we heard it flapping in the corner of the windscreen half way down the motorway, we couldn't remember what bay he'd been parked in. So we thought it must have been that and made a mental note to "be more careful"!

Then 3 days later (24/03/14) he received another one. He'd been parked next to another visitor and noticed a permit on the windscreen. I immediately contacted the landlord and she said she would get me one, and said she'd have to source one from the managing agents for me at a cost of £50.

We appealed these two tickets (or I wrote the letter on behalf of my partner) saying he didn't know who was driving and that the signage was unclear and doesn't say anything about visitors. (We are both named drivers on the car, and when he is visiting (he lives 200 miles away) we do both drive it.)

In the meantime, I'm happily giving the new permit to my partner on his next few visits and then a couple of weeks later (16/04) he gets another one. Same reason as the first two: "Not displaying a valid permit". I replied there and then with pictures saying "there was one...look". Thinking perhaps the person handing out the tickets must have been blind.

Then he got another on the 28/04/14. I called up both Park Direct and the managing agents and found out that the permit was in fact an old/out of date one. (It had simply changed colour). I got straight back in touch with the landlord and she actually got me the correct permit this time. Which I think is actually free.

My partner has since received the same letter for the first two tickets we appealed, saying that they rejected the appeal and that if he didn't provide the driver details that on day 29 they would get them from the DVLA.

So fast forward to last week. I texted my landlord as she said she was going to talk to the managing agents to see if they could do anything about the tickets. I chased her up as i thought I would have to appeal the last one soon and didn't know what grounds to do it on. In the end I emailed the managing agents as she hadn't heard back and explained the whole situ about the parking and how no one had told me about visitor's permits, even when I asked. (The landlord said I should have received "chapter and verse" on it from the letting agents at the beginning.) The managing agents then forwarded my email to Park Direct asking them to take a "pragmatic approach" on it.

Their "pragmatic" approach is 3 tickets at the lesser amount of £60 and the last two at admin charges of £24. Totaling £228 to be paid within 7 days. Neither of us have that have that kind of money!

I asked about the 5th ticket as there were only 4 and apparently one was given that my partner never saw. Photo's show it was when the wrong coloured permit was on the dashboard. I challenged that why wasn't this also £24, and got a threatening email back saying that if i wasn't happy with the offer that they'd revoke it. (I think that's what their email meant.. it was very confusing, but still very threatening and aggressive).

Now I get to the interesting bits.

Park Direct told me the first two are already at Debt Collectors. My partner has spoken to his car leasing company (it's a company car) and no one whatsoever has been in touch with them about any tickets, ever. Can they do this already? Aren't they meant to get hold of owner details from the DVLA? He also hasn't received any letters at all from Park Direct other than the duplicated response about the first two tickets. Believe me I have tried to research and read as much as possible, and from what I can tell, aren't they meant to serve a Notice to Keeper before it goes to DCA? Their first letter doesn't mention anything about DCA's if it's not paid. It just asks for driver details and if he doesn't give them then they will pursue the registered keeper. (Park Direct tried to argue this on the phone).

Are what they're doing legal? Or have we just escalated things by simply appealing and everything they are doing is right?

And can they really only give us 7 days to pay their "goodwill gesture"? I don't have £228 I can just find within 7 days. It seems as if they are just making up rules as they go along.

I've read some sites where they suggest for the land owner to contact the parking co asking if they'd cancel it. Can the managing agents simply ask them to cancel it?

Should I just beg borrow and steal to pay their "kind" offer of £228? I am of course wondering if they have taken some illegal short cuts and that I might have a leg to stand on if in fact they haven't gone through the right channels.

Forgive me for being so naive. I have tried to read as much as possible but I am so stressed and just can't figure this out.
Any advice would be SO appreciated.

Redx

have you read the NEWBIES READ THIS FIRST sticky thread yet ? , at the top of this forum ?

reddygirl

Yes of course I have. But I haven't seen anything in it, (or anywhere else) that vaguely resembles my situation whereby I can take some advice from. Hence why after a good deal of time of researching on the web why I have posted in here.

Redx

yes the landowner or managing agents can cancel them , if asked and wish to do so

you say you appealed but have not mentioned popla codes or appealing to popla once these codes are received

if any of them are now with debt collectors you havent mentioned reading the debt collector post in post #4 of the newbies thread

if no popla codes were received, you havent mentioned any complaints made to the dvla and BPA as detailed in post #6 of the newbies thread

post #5 in there deals with leased cars , where the RK (the leasing company) names the keeper/driver to absolve themselves under POFA 2012 so that should have happened , OR the driver of the leased car should have appealed direct to the PPC (TELLS YOU THIS IN THE NEWBIES THREAD)

they should actually pursue the DRIVER for these invoices but if they follow POFA 2012 they can pursue the RK (INCLUDING LEASING COMPANIES)

Not sure what you mean by legal , these are invoices for an alleged breach or private parking rules on private land , the only test for legality is if or when they go before a judge , but anyone can send somebody else an invoice and has up to 6 years to enforce it (in england and wales) under the small claims service (or MCOL)

in theory they pursue under the trespass laws , and contractual laws where they believe you made a contract with them to park on private land, or a breach of those parking rules etc

I have seen dozens of similar situations on here regarding parking spaces for flats and residencies etc , so no idea why you think its not been mentioned on here before , I can assure you these things happen every week

ps:- they ALL have shambolic ways, which is why there are so many threads in this forum

its also one reason why Martin Lewis posted this recently https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4967391 , post #1

ColliesCarer

Ok firstly do not pay them a penny.
Breaking this lot down as different actions will be needed - deal with the three most recent first - Dates being 16/04, 28/04 and one unknown date.

Do you have the ticket numbers for all three?
If not find out what the ticket number was for the third but while doing that - don't delay following the advice below for the other two especially the one issued 16/04
I know you have been in contact with them over these but it doesn't sound like your partner has actually formally appealed - which you can still do.

Providing the third one was also issued since 16/04 - these three will all be within 28 days of the date of issue - as this is a leased company car your partner should use the template 1st appeal letter which you will find in the NEWBIES thread post #1

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822

It starts

Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline to pay ......

Change "As the registered keeper..." to "As the hirer.... "

Your partner should send one separate copy for each of the three recent tickets to Park Direct - get it done quickly because you only have until 14th May for the 28 days to be up for the ticket issued on 16/04 - submit on-line or by email if poss - if you post them , take to the post office and ask for a free certificate of posting.

To avoid confusing the issue I'll post separately regarding the first two tickets received.

reddygirl

My point about legalities was that they simply wrote a letter in response to an appeal for the first two tickets, and said they would contact the DVLA for owner details if he did not give them. He didn't (why should we make their lives easier?!) And already they are supposedly at the DCA - so they tell me but again he's had nothing in writing from anyone to suggest this.

The leasing company of the car say that no one has been in touch with them. My partner has had no notice to owner (it would have been either me or him driving), no further letter from PDUK to say "if you don't pay within x days it's going to DCA"... nothing. As I said in my original post. He's had one letter in response to one ticket and the same letter in response to the second ticket.

There are no popla codes on the letter. (I'd post it if I could work out how)

I haven't contacted DVLA to complain (I don't feel we're at that stage yet) as I don't believe PDUK have contacted ANYONE to get owner details. If they had, someone would have been in touch with my partner to get permission to pass on his details because they should have received something from the DVLA.

And the situaton I was referring to was not simply a case of parking at flats/private land, but more on the how they are processing this. How can it be at a DCA already? The leasing co haven't heard from anyone. If they serve notice on the leasing co then they would have some kind of record of it and would contact my partner to sort it. They have nothing.

I'm sorry if my original post was very long...

ColliesCarer

They cannot get driver details from the DVLA - only registered keeper details.

For lease cars the registered keeper will be the lease company - not you or your partner.

They will not get the registered keeper details from the DVLA now, for certainly the first two, as your partner has responded to the windscreen notices - which is what is advised for lease cars anyway because of the risk the lease company will pay them.

If their letters rejecting the appeals for the first two did not contain a POPLA code (1 for each windscreen ticket) Your partner needs to complain to the BPA that the parking company is in breach of the Code of Practise. Contact details will be found in the NEWBIES thread post #6

reddygirl

Thanks ColliesCarer.

Yes I know they will only be able to get the Registered Keeper details from the DVLA. So are you saying because we wrote a letter that they won't need to do that? They did say in their letter that if we didn't provide details of who was driving then they would request details of the registered owner. But like i said, no one whatsoever has contacted the leasing company at all. And my partner hasn't received anything further. But Park Direct seem adamant on the phone that they have sent it to the DCA already.

reddygirl

I did appeal the third ticket (16/04) the day my partner received it saying there was a permit there (unbeknown to me that it was the incorrect one given to me by the landlord). So should they not have written back by now about it? Or should I just send the templated letter you suggest?

Redx

reddygirl wrote: »

I did appeal the third ticket (16/04) the day my partner received it saying there was a permit there (unbeknown to me that it was the incorrect one given to me by the landlord). So should they not have written back by now about it? Or should I just send the templated letter you suggest?

if you appealed they have 14 days to acknowledge the receipt of the appeal, and 35 days to actually give a decision ( so 2 weeks to reply with an acknowledgement and a further 3 weeks to cancel or issue a popla code)

if you appealed any of them , they should have issued popla codes if rejecting the appeals , one for each ticket (one for each appeal)

forget about the legalities and what went on , concentrate for now on appealing each and every ticket using the correct responses and re-reading the newbies thread until you fully understand it and also understand what to do about it and why , and when

you can learn all about it once you have got the basics sorted out, same as the rest of us have had to do

I did explain that as far as leased cars are concerned its different as the RK is not the driver or hirer , but POFA 2012 can make the RK liable, and that is legal as its the law

ColliesCarer

I realise you are probably dealing with this on your partners behalf but it is very confusing when you keep switching between "I sent x .... " and "My partner did y ..."

All correspondence to the parking company should be done in your partners name as the hirer of the vehicle.

This needs to be dragged back to how it should have been dealt with in the first place. The advice in the NEWBIES thread is what should have been done when your partner got the windscreen notices.

For tickets 3, 4 and 5 your partner can probably still do that.

reddygirl wrote: »

I did appeal the third ticket (16/04) the day my partner received it saying there was a permit there (unbeknown to me that it was the incorrect one given to me by the landlord). So should they not have written back by now about it? Or should I just send the templated letter you suggest?

So for tickets 4 and 5 then your partner needs to send the 1st appeal template letter changing only the opening line to "I am the hirer ..."

For ticket 3 your partner needs to use the same template appeal letter used for 4 and 5 but should add that he wishes to add these additional points to the appeal already submitted on xx/xx/xx and include a copy of what was sent originally.

DEALING WITH TICKETS 1 and 2

reddygirl wrote: »

Thanks ColliesCarer.

Yes I know they will only be able to get the Registered Keeper details from the DVLA. So are you saying because we wrote a letter that they won't need to do that? They did say in their letter that if we didn't provide details of who was driving then they would request details of the registered owner. But like i said, no one whatsoever has contacted the leasing company at all. And my partner hasn't received anything further. But Park Direct seem adamant on the phone that they have sent it to the DCA already.

For the first two tickets - I'm saying it's highly unlikely they will get DVLA data because they now have you/your partner on the hook. If they do get DVLA details it is the lease company that any further correspondence will go to - that includes Debt Collection letters.

If that happens there is risk they will pay the charges. Your partner needs to write to the lease company informing them that should they hear from PCS under no circumstances must it be paid by the lease company as this is a civil matter and is not a fine or a Penalty Charge. He should ask them to name him as hirer of the car and give them his correspondence address .

Also he should complain to the BPA about both rejection letters as parking companies have been warned they must not imply that the driver has to be named and they have not provided a POPLA code.

In addition he should write to the Parking Company - separate but same letter for windscreen tickets 1 and 2 - informing them they have been reported to the BPA for breaches in the BPA COP in that they have failed to provide a POPLA code and are implying the driver must be named. He should demand a POPLA code within 7 days or he will consider the matter closed.