Urgent FPN question - "MS 60"

Phil_P_2

Hi all,

Way back in January 2013 I received a FPN after I was seen by the Police adjusting my Satnav. Although I was travelling in very slow moving traffic I accepted my guilt and agreed to pay a £60 FPN. I'm not trying to mitigate my actions.........I was wrong; I broke the law.

I paid the FPN but I must admit I was unaware that I'd also had my license endorsed with 3 penalty points; again, I admit my error.

I have just updated my license details (change of address) and the new license arrived this morning. I was very surprised to see that I had been awarded the 3 points but after briefly searching on the "Web" I'm mortified that the court has stipulated a "MS 60" code, which will affect my insurance premiums and also my employment status.

I am really shocked, as the MS 60 code is a code for "nondescript offences", when it seems more accurate to correctly describe the offence as a "CD10" (Driving without due care and attention).

As I have paid the FPN over 12 months ago and although I do not contest the actual FPN, I would query the coding (If I recall correctly I was not informed by the officer of the type of endorsement).

My question is this:- Is it possible for the Sheriffs Court (Scotland) to amend the endorsement code to show the more specific "CD 10" rather than the generic "MS 60"?

I'm not trying to mitigate my actions............I made a mistake; I broke the Law and I was guilty. I just need to know which, if any, course of action I can now take?

Thanks in advance.

Phil

System

CD10 is for the specific offence of driving without due care and attention not a catch all code.

You really do not want a CD10 instead of an MS60

Aretnap

The offence you will have had the fixed penalty for is a construction and use offence - driving while not being in a position to have proper control over the vehicle. It's not the same offence as careless driving, and the court can't retrospectively acquit you of it and convict you of careless driving instead.

What code gets assigned to each offence is a matter for the DVLA, not the court, as far as I'm aware. Until recently not in proper control was given the MS60 code, which is a catch all "offences not covered by other codes" code. A complete PITA when it comes to insurance, as insurers have no idea whether it relates to a serious offence or a minor one, so many will not quote, or only quote at silly prices. You'd think that the fact that you only got 3 points for it would be a clue that it was a minor offence, but car insurance prices tend to be set by computers rather than real people these days.

Recently (some time last year I think) the DVLA reclassified not in proper control and it now gets a CU80 endorsement code - the same as a mobile phone offence (link). Problem is that I don't think it was applied retrospectively. You have nothing to lose though by contacting the DVLA and asking if it's possible to have the record changed to CU80 - the worst they can say is no, and if you can it would probably make your insurance situation easier.

Otherwise try an insurance broker who might be able to find an underwriter willing to treat it in the same way as a mobile phone offence.

Aretnap

!!!!!! wrote: »

CD10 is for the specific offence of driving without due care and attention not a catch all code.

You really do not want a CD10 instead of an MS60

Actually I'd bet a pound to a penny that most people would find that CD10 makes less of a difference to their insurance premiums than a MS60, especially if it was only for 3 points.

But as above if he could get it changed, CU80 is the most likely one it would be changed to.

Buellguy

I'd stick with the MS60 rather that a CU80

Aretnap

Buellguy wrote: »

I'd stick with the MS60 rather that a CU80

I wouldn't. A quick play on GoCompare suggests that I could get insurance for £240 with a CU80, but with an MS60 it would be upwards of £300. That's quite a bit less than some people in the OP's position seem to have found.

Phil_P_2

Wow, thanks for the quick responses.

A few more questions.

1. Should the Officer have stated the offence code, or just the circumstances?

2. Could I apply under the FoI act to get a copy of the original FPN?

It seems to me, if I recall correctly that the Officer did not note the offence code on the FPN. I paid over the phone and wasn't told to submit my licence for endorsement. Surely if the code had been applied to the FPN, then I would have been told to take my licence to the court, for endorsement.

The offence was committed last January 2013 and I've only just become aware of the endorsement today.

Even though I was in the wrong, a CU 80 would be no major pain; but a MS 60 may affect my job!

Once again thanks for your advice.

Phil

AdrianC

It's quite simple. You pleaded guilty to an MS60 Miscellaneous offence. You were not charged with a CU80 or CD10.

I'm very surprised to hear it might affect your employment, though...

lighting_up_the_chalice

AdrianC wrote: »

It's quite simple. You pleaded guilty to an MS60 Miscellaneous offence. You were not charged with a CU80 or CD10.

I'm very surprised to hear it might affect your employment, though...

Only in a "notifiable occupation". In certain jobs, even minor traffic offences are notifiable to the employer.

Aretnap

The FPN only has to state the nature of the offence. It doesn't have to include the endorsement code, which AFAIK has no particular legal status, it's just the way the DVLA chooses to classify the endorsement. The offence isn't "MS60" or "CU80", it's "driving while not in a position to have proper control over the vehicle" - though something like "not in proper control" would probably be good enough.

I'd be surprised if you could get the original FPN under FOI - that sort of personal detail is normally excluded, and in any event it may well have been thrown away by now. Plus I can't see how it would help - there was no fixed penalty for careless driving available in Jan 13, so not in proper control is the only offence it could possibly have been for. That offence carries mandatory endorsement. Whether you'd actually committed it by adjusting your SatNav in slow moving traffic is open to debate... but as you accepted the FPN it's too late to argue that point now.

I'm surprised if it has an effect on your employment. Your employers night be unnerved by the presence of a code that they haven't seen before, but if you can assure your boss that it was for fiddling with your satnav in slow moving traffic and not for drunkenly running down a group of nuns it's unlikely that he'll want to sack you for it. It might cause issues if your company has a fleet insurance policy which will only accept drivers with certain conviction codes, but I'd have thought there'd be ways round that.

Speaking of insurance, have you actually checked what effect it will have on your premium? If the difference between an MS60 and a CU80 is a few tens of pounds, as it would be for me, then it's annoying, but probably not worth getting into a panic about.