Housing buying help re Certificates

Okydoky25

We are close to exchange (have been for weeks our end!) and we are at stale mate with our Sellers.

Our seller will not agree to pay the £140.00 for the indemnity policy to cover us for the unknown restrictive covenants for which they can't find the original document!? Is this normal. Our solicitor thinks they should pay and can't understand why they are refusing. Strangely it is the sellers solicitors saying thus but the EA keeps saying they will but then haven't!?

Also the search has revealed there should be the following:

1. A NICEIC certificate for the property (which is a certificate to prove electrical work was done by a registered contractor.
2. A GASSAFE certificate
3. A FENSA certificate (to show compliance with building regulations for installation of windows/doors.

We have been asked if we are happy to complete without them and I have no idea if I should be or if I can source copies myself?

The property has been renovated by a private builder who briefly lived there ready for sale and altho it's a 1910 building it has all pretty new (last few years) boiler/windows etc

AlexMac

As regards the Q " they can't find the original document!? Is this normal" I suggest its surprisingly common.

I'm no expert, but having bought and sold over the past 30 years, it's interesting how lawyers are now so risk-averse and picky that they now ask (on your behalf) about stuff we used to ignore or take for granted - building regs/planning assent on any major works, FENSA on any replacement windows, NICEIC on any rewiring, Gas certs (which are strictly speaking only needed if you plan to rent....

To answer the Q 'can I source these...?) I'd say, probably not, unless the vendor tells you which registered contractors did the work. But the reality probably is, that your jobbing (unregistered) builder did 'em 'isself. Which doesn't mean the work was totally incompetent. Few people deliberately bodge.

Think about how soon you expect to sell on. When you do, it may be a problem, in that your buyer will ask the same Q's (if you admit any work has been done; a cynic might deny that they had done any building work soa s to duck the inevitable consequent request for paperwork. Hardly any 100-year-old building has certificates).

Assuming you'll stay a few years, I'd feel that none of these building improvement issues are deal-breakers. You can commission electrical and gas inspections quite cheaply, and id really paranoid, get a surveyor in for a few hundred quid.

As regards the covenants; if your vendor is toughing it out, the Q is 'are you prepared to walk away over a disputed £140' ? To which your reply is probably 'No'.

Depends how hard a negotiator you are - if you love the house, go for it. The vendor is a builder who seems to be doing it as a business. You're buying with your heart- so trust your gut (heart?) feeling.

Best wishes

G_M

If this was just a single window replacement, and a missing FENSA certificate, I'd say just forget it (though I believe FENSA keep records searchable by address).

But if it's a complete renovation, with none of the certification (Building regulations sign-off for the renovation.....?) I would have serious concerns.

What short-cuts were taken to save money? Were the shortcuts minor (insufficient depth of insulation in attic) or major (insufficient strength of supporting beam :eek: )

It may 'look new'. It may be new. But is it safe?

All these certificates (gas, windows, building Regs etc) are there to ensure building meet minimum standards, and there are good reasons for them.

As for the unknown restrictive covenant, these could be anything. Petty and unimportant or seriously onerous.

Insist on having the document found.

Of course, it's easy for me to sit here and advise this. Only you know how much you want the property, what risks you are prepared to accept to get it, how much time/money/emotion you've already invested in the purchase........

joe134

G_M wrote: »

If this was just a single window replacement, and a missing FENSA certificate, I'd say just forget it (though I believe FENSA keep records searchable by address).

But if it's a complete renovation, with none of the certification (Building regulations sign-off for the renovation.....?) I would have serious concerns.

What short-cuts were taken to save money? Were the shortcuts minor (insufficient depth of insulation in attic) or major (insufficient strength of supporting beam :eek: )

It may 'look new'. It may be new. But is it safe?

All these certificates (gas, windows, building Regs etc) are there to ensure building meet minimum standards, and there are good reasons for them.

As for the unknown restrictive covenant, these could be anything. Petty and unimportant or seriously onerous.

Insist on having the document found.

Of course, it's easy for me to sit here and advise this. Only you know how much you want the property, what risks you are prepared to accept to get it, how much time/money/emotion you've already invested in the purchase........

my grandson is having the same problem with a new house.solicitor requires everything, but, we cannot find which one is delaying, vendors or grandsons, or both.
my grandson has offered tp pay £150 fot d o c, because it's new, but 3 months down the line, no movement.
it's become a personal grudge match with solicitors.
we know what the d o c is for, but one of the arguments is payment.
my grandson just wants in.
I would be more dubious with an old, house, d o c could be for anything.right of way, etc

Okydoky25

Thank you for your replies. This has been most helpful.

I have just checked FENSA and there is a certificate dated 2003 for 2 windows. I would assume the others are previous to this date and the new ones are from when the bathroom was moved upstairs and a new layout to the kitchen was installed as there are newer windows so that has put my mind at rest at least.

This is our Dream family home and we have no plans to leave. In fact I could happily leave in a box!

There is a full electrical certificate that shows all have been checked together with the boiler.

I'm now being told that the Building regs are being found at the council for which the seller is paying for so I guess it is just the Restrictive Convent we will have to swallow the cost for. I really would like to know what is on it altho assume it is very old as the street has lots of new and old buildings all different in shape/size/colour etc.

Is this something I could try and locate after the completion and complete using the insurance?

Sorry 1. More thing while arranging the building insurance I notice that the rebuild is £50k more than we are paying for it. Is this normal. I always assumed it was cheaper?

Okydoky25

Sorry just a thought. It is a semi detached house. Would I be able see if the neighbours had a copy I could view. Would it be identical?

Doozergirl

Okydoky25 wrote: »

Sorry just a thought. It is a semi detached house. Would I be able see if the neighbours had a copy I could view. Would it be identical?

You can't guarantee it, but it's certainly very likely to be identical on the other side of your semi!

If you have current safety certificates for gas and electrics, those are as good as or better than installation certs as they are more recent. It sounds like the vendor is pulling his finger out now, anyway.

In cheaper parts of the country, rebuild can genuinely cost more than house value. Go figure. Estimate at least £1000 per square metre of house.

cattie

It is not uncommon for vendors to refuse to pay for an indemnity policy. My own vendors refused point blank to pay, in spite of this being an executor sale & one of the 2 executors being a local solicitor.

The choice is you pay for it yourself or walk away. Hardly anybody with any sense is going to walk away for what is a relatively small amount, considering the whole cost involved in buying a property.

G_M

Re-build cost is usually cheaper than market value - not always.

Get a good estimate for yourself here:

http://calculator.bcis.co.uk/