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Park Direct UK - Uxbridge
wicksy1967
Posts: 4 Newbie
Hi all, I am a newbie to this forum although I have browsed many a thread on MSE in the past. I never thought I'd have to ask for help, but now due to cowboy parking companies i now have the need.
To outline the familiar scenario, this is what happened.
I received a PCN from Park Direct UK as I am the registered owner of the vehicle in question. The driver had turned into the premises in question to drop someone off in town. Upon stopping the driver noticed the signage (the passenger had got out during this time) and proceeded to exit the premises. Whilst stopped the driver noticed a blonde female, not in any sort of uniform, not sporting any kind of identification apparently listening to music on her Iphone. She was in fact taking photos of the car stationary for Park Direct UK.
One thing I noticed about the PCN was that the time they state the offence allegedly occurs is different to the times on the photos. The time the offence allegedly occurred was 12:27 and the photos show 12:24 and 12:25. So, all in all the car was stopped for less than a minute.
Here is the letter I intend to send to Park Direct UK, I have used the template here on MSE and added some bits and pieces, as I say, I am new to this but feel that there is good ground to dispute this.
Dear Park Direct UK
PCN number xxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis.
The driver of the vehicle entered the premises stopped, saw and read the signs and then exited the premises in a timely manner. At no time during this time was the engine switched off or did the driver exit the vehicle.
The time stated on the PCN says that the alleged offence occurred at 12:27 even though the photographic evidence clearly states 12:24 & 12:25.
1. Grace Period - The BPA Code of Practice states in section 13 the following:-
13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.
This was clearly not observed by your company.
2. Underhand and covert ticketing operation not BPA Code of Practice compliant
Your operator was not wearing a visible parking enforcement uniform clearly showing that she was indeed a parking attendant nor was she wearing any form of visible identification.
She was in fact leaning against a wall pretending to be listening to her Iphone whilst trying to take discreet pictures with her Iphone.
At no time did she attempt to approach the driver of the vehicle to warn them about the alleged offence or indeed issue a PCN there and then.
The BPA Code of Practice states in section 9 the following:-
• your front-line operational staff wear a uniform and carry a photo-identity card that is visible and available for inspection by drivers
• you deal with drivers and other members of the public in a professional way, avoiding using aggressive or threatening language.
3. The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
4. Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract. Upon further inspection of your site a small sign propped up against the wall at floor level does not constitute adequate ‘Entrance’ signage.
5. You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss?
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours,
Joe Bloggs
Any pointers on additional information etc would be gratefully recieved.
To outline the familiar scenario, this is what happened.
I received a PCN from Park Direct UK as I am the registered owner of the vehicle in question. The driver had turned into the premises in question to drop someone off in town. Upon stopping the driver noticed the signage (the passenger had got out during this time) and proceeded to exit the premises. Whilst stopped the driver noticed a blonde female, not in any sort of uniform, not sporting any kind of identification apparently listening to music on her Iphone. She was in fact taking photos of the car stationary for Park Direct UK.
One thing I noticed about the PCN was that the time they state the offence allegedly occurs is different to the times on the photos. The time the offence allegedly occurred was 12:27 and the photos show 12:24 and 12:25. So, all in all the car was stopped for less than a minute.
Here is the letter I intend to send to Park Direct UK, I have used the template here on MSE and added some bits and pieces, as I say, I am new to this but feel that there is good ground to dispute this.
Dear Park Direct UK
PCN number xxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis.
The driver of the vehicle entered the premises stopped, saw and read the signs and then exited the premises in a timely manner. At no time during this time was the engine switched off or did the driver exit the vehicle.
The time stated on the PCN says that the alleged offence occurred at 12:27 even though the photographic evidence clearly states 12:24 & 12:25.
1. Grace Period - The BPA Code of Practice states in section 13 the following:-
13 Grace periods
13.1 Your approach to parking management must allow a driver who enters your car park but decides not to park, to leave the car park within a reasonable period without having their vehicle issued with a parking charge notice.
13.2 You should allow the driver a reasonable ‘grace period’ in which to decide if they are going to stay or go. If the driver is on your land without permission you should still allow them a grace period to read your signs and leave before you take enforcement action.
13.3 You should be prepared to tell us the specific grace period at a site if our compliance team or our agents ask what it is.
13.4 You should allow the driver a reasonable period to leave the private car park after the parking contract has ended, before you take enforcement action.
This was clearly not observed by your company.
2. Underhand and covert ticketing operation not BPA Code of Practice compliant
Your operator was not wearing a visible parking enforcement uniform clearly showing that she was indeed a parking attendant nor was she wearing any form of visible identification.
She was in fact leaning against a wall pretending to be listening to her Iphone whilst trying to take discreet pictures with her Iphone.
At no time did she attempt to approach the driver of the vehicle to warn them about the alleged offence or indeed issue a PCN there and then.
The BPA Code of Practice states in section 9 the following:-
• your front-line operational staff wear a uniform and carry a photo-identity card that is visible and available for inspection by drivers
• you deal with drivers and other members of the public in a professional way, avoiding using aggressive or threatening language.
3. The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
4. Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract. Upon further inspection of your site a small sign propped up against the wall at floor level does not constitute adequate ‘Entrance’ signage.
5. You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:
- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.
- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss?
- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.
- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).
Take formal note:
(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.
(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.
(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.
By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.
Yours,
Joe Bloggs
Any pointers on additional information etc would be gratefully recieved.
0
Comments
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I think the pin is well and truly pulled out of that hand-grenade.
0 -
Shall I go with this, or has anyone got any extra advice?
Would it be best to wait for a few days for the experts on here to comment?0 -
I'm no expert on all this. There are some who are super at reading and giving advice. However just a small point ATA should be BPA
4. Your signage does not comply with your BPA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract. Upon further inspection of your site a small sign propped up against the wall at floor level does not constitute adequate ‘Entrance’ signage.Newbie thread: go to the top of this page and find these words: Main site > MoneySavingExpert.com Forums > Household & Travel > Motoring > Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking. Click on words Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking. Newbie thread is the first post. Blue New Thread button is just above it to left.0 -
That looks fine, it'll confuse them and they are 'bears with very little brain' (ex-clampers)! Is this the usual PD scam with this woman or a clone just like her:wicksy1967 wrote: »Shall I go with this, or has anyone got any extra advice?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1213482/Gone-30-seconds-How-cowboy-clampers-pounced-half-minute-claim-150-fine.html
Well known on here and easily beaten at POPLA. They aren't up to the fight now their clamps have been taken away by law!PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
Thanks Coupon-mad, I will send it straight away.
Yes she looks a bit like the woman pretending to listen to her Iphone, it should be an offence to use the underhand tactics that they use but it seems they can't be called to justice.
I'll let you know how this goes.0 -
Sorry about the late response, work has been manic.
Well I received a letter from Parking Direct UK Ltd rejecting my appeal, surprise, surprise.
They rejected it stating that the driver was in breach of their terms and conditions.
I have sent off my appeal to Popla and will keep you posted when I hear something.0 -
Hope you re-wrote it like the POPLA appeal templates in the NEWBIES thread post #3 and made particular reference to 'no GPEOL' and 'no standing/authority' (rather than the other smoke & mirrors stuff about grace periods & underhand tactics which won't win a POPLA appeal?PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD0 -
wicksy1967 wrote: »Sorry about the late response, work has been manic.
Well I received a letter from Parking Direct UK Ltd rejecting my appeal, surprise, surprise.
They rejected it stating that the driver was in breach of their terms and conditions.
I have sent off my appeal to Popla and will keep you posted when I hear something.
Hi Can you please let me know how you got on with the appeal?
Something similar has happened to me, I went into a road, moved to the side to let a car through, did a U-turn and at that point a friend of mine jumped in the back of the car and I left the place. At no point I parked/waited or left the car, I've now received a letter from them charging me £100. The photos show the back of my car with the reverse lights on, which happened when I was letting the other car move out. I need to appeal but have never done this before. Can you please advise?0 -
1. Please start your own thread, as your circumstances will be different. That way it keeps each person's discussion separate.Can you please advise?
2. Read the NEWBIES sticky thread, and follow what it says. Template appeals are provided.
You'll need to state (in your new thread) who the PPC is, as that could shape the nature of the appeal.0 -
The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »1. Please start your own thread, as your circumstances will be different. That way it keeps each person's discussion separate.
2. Read the NEWBIES sticky thread, and follow what it says. Template appeals are provided.
You'll need to state (in your new thread) who the PPC is, as that could shape the nature of the appeal.
On fairness, Mulata is asking the OP what the result of their appeal was. Granted, then went on to state own circumstances, but a reply to question "How did you get on?" would be of interest to others.0
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