Council PCN - CCTV generated. Contravention Code 02. PLease Help!

Phil_E

Hi Guys,

I recently received a Council PCN through the post, generated by the street CCTV, and I am looking at challenging it. However I would desperately need some urgent assistance from anyone in the know regarding such issues and how I can address my appeal to them please. Much appreciated and thank you in advance.

I had pulled over in what was a Parking Bay, at 18:26 (6:26pm) and had left the engine running and the hazard lights on, as I wasn't going to be any more than 2-3 minutes or so. I had popped into the store to get something and was out within probably 2 minutes. There was also a passenger who had remained in my vehicle while I was out.

The signpost stated the following:
For Parking "Mon-Sat 9am to 6pm" ; for Loading "No loading Mon-Sat 8 - 9am; 6 - 7pm" and as 'No waiting' same hours as the Loading!

There are separate / designated road markings for the "Loading" and "Parking" bays and I know for a fact I was in the latter, which made me convinced that I was no longer within the 9am to 6pm Parking restrictions and that the Loading bay restricted hours won't apply to me!?

Now the PCN states that I was in contravention of Code 02: PARKED OR LOADING/UNLOADING IN A RESTRICTED STREET WHERE WAITING AND LOADING/UNLOADING RESTRICTIONS ARE IN FORCE.

The one photographic 'evidence' the council had sent me through the post only shows the parking signage that is unreadable, unclear. On their website there are two more but again the photographic evidence doesn't clearly show the hours or anything else written / marked/ printed on them etc. The only clear evidence was that of my car being in the Parking Bay and its registration number.

The other thing I do remember was that there was, at the time, a "Parking suspension" attached literally at the bottom of the permanent signage. Now this is also the part where I am more confused! Does that mean that the information on the 'normal' parking signs become invalid (and therefore one can park their vehicle) or that no parking, stopping, whether engine and hazard lights being on or off are permitted? (One of the photos they sent me does show - although from far - this "temporary" sign being attached to the post but not readable and prove my hazard lights were on as well).

I noticed that of the 3 photo evidences available on the council's website, two of them have been cut out so the Parking suspension sign is not shown. Now I have no idea for the reason behind that except that it must mean something to the Council?! Or it could have been unintentional or simply irrelevant. I have also requested the video footage and it should be emailed out to me in due course.

Now based on my points above as well as the rather poor quality of photographic evidence available by the street CCTV, do I have enough grounds to challenge this PCN please?

I would be very grateful for any urgent help please! Thank you!!

Nodding_Donkey

So it said 'No waiting' 6pm to 7pm

Phil_E

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

So it said 'No waiting' 6pm to 7pm

Indeed. However, I was wondering if I still have a case on the following grounds:


1. the photographic evidence they sent doesn't show the the signage clearly (it's not readable at all, hence doesn't confirm the restricted times),
2. If there was someone in the car and engine still running and hazard lights on does that still constitute an offence? And I wasn't for more than 2-3 minutes,
3. There was a "parking suspension" sign there at the time and I am not sure how this will impact.

I understand there are different rules regarding an area where CCTV evidence is used as an approved device as opposed to a CEO handing out the PCN manually.
Can I get some light on it and all the above please?
I am also trying to look for an attachment section to upload the picture but couldn't find one other than one requesting a 'url'.

Thank you,

Coupon-mad

1. the photographic evidence they sent doesn't show the the signage clearly (it's not readable at all, hence doesn't confirm the restricted times)
YEP - A VERY VALID POINT THAT WINS APPEALS IN THE END!
2. If there was someone in the car and engine still running and hazard lights on does that still constitute an offence? And I wasn't for more than 2-3 minutes, IRRELEVANT I AM AFRAID - it's still a contravention (not a crim 'offence' at all!).
3. There was a "parking suspension" sign there at the time and I am not sure how this will impact.
IT COULD WELL DO BECAUSE THE CONTRAVENTION CODE MAY BE WRONG.

Phil_E wrote: »

I understand there are different rules regarding an area where CCTV evidence is used as an approved device as opposed to a CEO handing out the PCN manually.
Can I get some light on it and all the above please?

Here you go, the relevant report about that issue, from the Chief Adjudicator, please read it all as this can win you the case:

http://notomob.co.uk/discussions/index.php?topic=867.0

Now the best advice is for you to post a new topic on pepipoo here:

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=30

...where you can post pictures as a newbie (unlike here). They also have the most Council PCN experts we know of. Let us know WHEN you win!

Nodding_Donkey

Phil_E wrote: »

1. the photographic evidence they sent doesn't show the the signage clearly (it's not readable at all, hence doesn't confirm the restricted times),

If the sign was there and you could read it then I don't see that their photo will make much difference

Phil_E wrote: »

2. If there was someone in the car and engine still running and hazard lights on does that still constitute an offence? And I wasn't for more than 2-3 minutes,

You were parked, using hazard lights isn't a get out of jail free card.

Phil_E wrote: »

3. There was a "parking suspension" sign there at the time and I am not sure how this will impact.

Irelevant, you weren't within permitted hours anyway.

Coupon-mad

Nodding_Donkey wrote: »

If the sign was there and you could read it then I don't see that their photo will make much difference.

Irelevant, you weren't within permitted hours anyway.

Both the above may make a difference - the footage HAS to show the sign for a start!

Nodding_Donkey

True but it would seem they have only sent him a still from it.

Ignore me I'm grumpy, drivers that think they can abandon their cars anywhere because they put their hazards in wind me up

tykesi

The fact you left your hazards on suggests to me you knew you were doing wrong. Why leave them on in a parking bay if you were using it for it's intended purpose? You do realise hazard lights are for emergencies don't you?

Phil_E

Coupon-Mad,

Thank you for your valuable advice!

One pointer - the parking suspension sign might have been there on the day (14th)the 'contravention' was alleged but it wasn't 'effective' until about a week later, when the utility works had begun (22nd). I got those dates confirmation from the council's website!
So from a legal perspective, where would I stand? ie does it still apply (and hence pcn contravention code being wrong/invalid) or it takes effect the day the utility works begin (which may then mean I was outside of the parking restricted hours).

I will also follow your advice and will let you know of the outcome!
Fingers cross.

Coupon-mad

It takes effect the day the suspension is stated to take effect, that would be on the sign. So your point 1 plus anything you get advised on pepipoo plus the points you will have gleaned from the Chief Adjudicator's report, will be your way forward. Most people on pepipoo win most Council PCN appeals - over 90% are won so the success rate is huge. What you do NOT say in appeal is 'I popped to a store to buy something' or 'there was someone in the car all the time'.