Scale and Polish

justme111

I guess you are young/ish and doing some of it for experience. I understand your noble reasoning of patients not being at fault etc etc. I believe trying to make a silk purse out of pig's ear is counterproductive though as it enables department of health and politicians to continue with their spin of universal good quality dentalcare . If there were no professionals compensating for their shortcomings I believe public wou have woken up by now ..

welshdent

justme111 wrote: »

I guess you are young/ish and doing some of it for experience. I understand your noble reasoning of patients not being at fault etc etc. I believe trying to make a silk purse out of pig's ear is counterproductive though as it enables department of health and politicians to continue with their spin of universal good quality dentalcare . If there were no professionals compensating for their shortcomings I believe public wou have woken up by now ..

Short of inviting complaints left right and centre I dont know what else I can do .... however as I said, I am no different to all the other practitioners I have worked with in 3 or 4 different practices. A private conversion isnt an option any time soon and unlike England there are few fully private practices. IMHO I Dont think the public will wake up to the realities. Ultimately to the average joe on the street, out trials and tribulations do not concern them/

justme111

Well , public is not bothered because they believe all is fine.. they believe all us fine because we do not tell them about how it could be either because we are deskilled or because we do not want to go into a lengthy discussion of "why it is not available on the nhs" and following complaints. I do not think any of parties is free of blame - politicians trying to avoid at all costs busting myph about free / subsidised universal healthcare /dental care , patients feeling entitled to everything because they "paid national insurance " and demanding it , dentists feeling they have to keep thir earnings up to pay for private schools for 3 children and helicopter flying lessons so churning out mediocre work and keeping silent ..
If people knew about limitations of NHS they would be more open to private care taking it as norm rather than luxury. Dentists would not have to subsidise NHS loss making side with high private fees so fees would come down. Highest earners amongst dentists would be those who people pay more money to see due to reputation , business skulls , quality of work and not amount of bodies that been taken in and out if chairs at their practices.

welshdent

I do actually agree. The NHS doesnt just reward, actively encourages mediocrity. Its only going to get worse with the proposals for the contract reform. I suspect however when people start literally being given the line "computer says no" THEN they may start to realise something is up. My friend suggested to me she would get "Dont blame me, its not my fault" on a t shirt.

justme111

I have a feeling this NHS dumbing down affected even undergraduate studies , after all if paymasters say that molar root treatment is not a basic level of competency but "more advanced tier 2 one" educational authorities are not going to sing from another sheet because then can compromise official position in doing so . I don't think they do apicectomies , ortho , space mainteiners on kids , chrome dentures , periosurgery etc anymore in undergraduate curriculum, am I right ?

welshdent

They don't down here no. I know the new grads are lucky to have a handful of endos. They never do inlay or onlays which is a standard procedure for me, far more than crowns. I think they do chromes but numbers are limited

freeyaeco

Hi, I'm a french dentist, and just been here 2 weeks.

NHS doesn't work, and obiously can't. I see horrible things everyday : molar RCT's wih only one canal treated, fillings that are just funny to look at (and to take out...), don't even get me started on crowns. It would be funny if we weren't talking about people's health here. I find it rather surprising the dentists haven't spoken up about the issues. I really don't understand.

Do you know on average how many patients would an NHS dentist (I hear they see between 25 and 40 a day... How come no one speaks up and tells people that in that amount of time you physically cannot treat a patient using up-to-date methods?) see yearly, I am quite curious about it.

In France we consider we have a severe (and I mean severe!) lack of dentists : we are 40000 for a 65 Million population. You have 31000 (around 25% less) for about the same population, and yet that seems to suffice... Either procedures are done really too fast on average or Britons have one of the best oral health in the world.

justme111

Freeyaeco , I believe we don't speak up because if one starts to speak up while working on NHS one may forget about working as a dentist. So that's one's livelyhood gone. All years of training wasted , lifestyle gone , our skills are nor readily transferreble and that NHS dentistry gives one chance to earn good money. But as soon as one opens the mouth one would be facing being struck off because it would read as "I dont do good NHS dentistry " , that's how it would be spun , they would not accept it can not be done , instead they would shot individual. Being struck off would mean enormous stress and earnings reduced like at least 3 times because other occupations started from scratch would not offer the same income. If one works privately and criticises NHS dentistry he / she is not going to be listened to /believed . Do not forget if one opens the.mouth one risks falling out with.friends and family as well as the.message will undermine all others who work in dentistry ..

freeyaeco

justme111 wrote: »

Freeyaeco , I believe we don't speak up because if one starts to speak up while working on NHS one may forget about working as a dentist. So that's one's livelyhood gone. All years of training wasted , lifestyle gone , our skills are nor readily transferreble and that NHS dentistry gives one chance to earn good money. But as soon as one opens the mouth one would be facing being struck off because it would read as "I dont do good NHS dentistry " , that's how it would be spun , they would not accept it can not be done , instead they would shot individual. Being struck off would mean enormous stress and earnings reduced like at least 3 times because other occupations started from scratch would not offer the same income. If one works privately and criticises NHS dentistry he / she is not going to be listened to /believed . Do not forget if one opens the.mouth one risks falling out with.friends and family as well as the.message will undermine all others who work in dentistry ..

Don't you have Labor unions for dentists that could speek up? You're telling me you could get "fired" from the NHS if you speak up? And you accept that? You're basically saying you are being blackmailed into silence, and no one resists? On what grounds would they be able to fire you? If you state facts and not just "ideas"... Like the number of patients on a list or the number you see per day? Just an example... If it's really the case, it is really sad. Your unions should call for strikes.

welshdent

The only union that we have which is recognised by the government is the BDA and they "broadly welcome" whatever the government tells them they need to welcome. They are very poor at representing our interests.
If I Were to state that private treatment is better than the NHS equivalent then in theory I can get pulled up to the GDC. I am contractually barred from saying the NHS is of lesser quality.