IPC appeal turned down (advice needed)

thedarkknight83

I parked in what I thought was a designated parking space as it was in line with other bays (separated by a box of criss-cross yellow lines), and had a white line that extended along the base of the box of yellow lines (in line with end of the other bays). The IPC rejected my appeal on the grounds that any 'reasonable' driver would believe that a designated parking space is between two white lines. They did not even address the white line behind my car. I am now in two minds as to whether to pay the £160 fine or go to court. Roxburghe sent me a letter saying that I owe them the money.

waamo

Which PPC is it?

thedarkknight83

The parking company? PCN-NW

Coupon-mad

IMHO this will be fairly easy to beat in court - it's a shame you don't seem to have got help with the IAS appeal. There were other grounds you should have used which would have won. The same sort of grounds that should win a court case - and even if you lost in small claims it does NOT affect your credit rating if you then paid up (but we think you'd win if you research this properly - as you should have done before!).

Have a read of other PCN(NW) cases search for 'PCN(NW) Court' on Google - there was one on pepipoo forum last month which went to court and the defendant won. They researched the issues and did a strong defence with forum help - and so can you! Small claims are rare but more likely for you now, as you just lost at IAS. PCN(NW) will pretend you have to pay - you DO NOT.

PCN(NW) have a problem in that some of their contracts are not even in their name with the landowner, so they have no standing - and their charge is not a GPEOL. Stuff like that would have won at IAS because PCN(NW) don't even follow the right business model or have the right signs up yet for the IPC Code of Practice. You missed all that, we have lots of knowledge about them!

Ignore Roxburghe and just wait for a 'proper' letter (not from Steve Dargonne at Roxy!!) or court papers, then post back on this thread. Read the NEWBIES thread (post #5 of it) about 'small claims'. What happens when, cases won, defence wording, etc. is all explained there at the top of this forum and if small claims court is the way forward in your case to get this crushed once and for all, then it will be much less of a big deal than you could imagine. We help with defences for people who are up for the fight, and we win cases too.

thedarkknight83

Thank you for your reply. I am really angry about this. Their appeals procedure seems to be a scam in order to get you to admit you are the driver of the vehicle. I have read that the solicitors they use is in the same building as the IPC (Independent Parking Committee) and there is a director who is in both businesses. I am willing to go to court but I don't want to waste time and money if I don't have a very good chance of winning. I could post a photo on here of how my car was parked, but it has my license plate number, not that it makes any difference now, I suppose!

Coupon-mad

Nope, you DO have a good chance of winning - small claims is a formal meeting, no solicitors and no huge fees. You had just as good a chance at IAS appeal as well but you missed a trick. Don't miss it this time now you are here. We know about everything you've mentioned about the IPC appeals thing BTW and we've complained to the DVLA about it ages ago and again recently.

I guess you've said who was driving as you felt you had to say?

Did you not use 'no standing' or 'no GPEOL' nor point out their signs have the wrong wording for the 'contractual' model required by the IPC?

The most useful pics for us to see would be pics of the signs.

thedarkknight83

The form I was sent had a set of boxes to tick for grounds of appeal and I don't think any of those things were mentioned. Yes, I felt like I had to provide that information.

thedarkknight83

It wont let me post links as I am a new user but a google of pcn nw st helens brings up the signs. There are two companies on the sign. The Parking Ticket Company Ltd (BPA) and ENFORCEMENT SERVICES by PCN NW Ltd(IPC). Thanks so much for your help.

thedarkknight83

Also, can I not launch another appeal to the IPC? On their website it says

Compliance Monitoring

It is a requirement of all ATA's to have an enforceable Code of Practice. The IPC therefore operates a sanction system in order to encourage compliance.

This includes a complaints procedure which allows people who feel that an operator is not complying with the code to refer matters to us.

The IPC is not able to consider complaints about members unless it is regarding an alleged instance of non-compliance of the Code. Similarly, the IPC are not able to intefere with decisions of Parking Operators in relation to the validity of charges that they issue. Nor will the IPC interfere with or influence in any way, the decisions of the Independent Appeals Service.

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

No you cant

Coupon-mad

thedarkknight83 wrote: »

The form I was sent had a set of boxes to tick for grounds of appeal and I don't think any of those things were mentioned. Yes, I felt like I had to provide that information.

You don't just stick to the script they give in the boxes. This was a wasted appeal but is not binding on you. PCN(NW) are beatable in small claims if you get our advice here now, so start reading as I suggested so you can see they aren't the best legal brains in the odd claim they start!