Can I Travel Abroad Why I Am Bankrupt

matty123_3

hi,
I have been reading the posts on here for a while now.
I am due to go bankrupt but i have a question i have a holiday booked next year will i still be able to go,do i need to tell the OR.
Any advice please

PixiePie

If it is already paid for, then I don't see why not, as from my experience with these things, you can't get any monies back if you cancel, so it wouldn't be of interest to the OR (and you are allowed a holiday). Unless it's a ridiculously expensive holiday (ie several thousands).

It would probably mean you are not allowed the £40-ish allowance for holidays in your I&E, but as you are allowed an allowance for a holiday (it's accepted that these are a part of reasonable living apparently), you should still be allowed the holiday.

As always, just my cotton wool brain though so check with the CSSS/CAB/National Debtline etc, and others that have actually been through it all (I'm still waiting to actually go BR) will be able to give better advise I'm sure.

matty123_3

thanks, hopefully someone can clarify it for me

Broken_hearted

I could but Martin says we have to be nice:p

matty123_3

hi Brokenhearted,
so do you mean we as a family will not be able to go.
thanks

fermi

A modest holiday as a break from routine is normally permitted when your income/expenditure is assessed for surplus income.

The OR generally works to these guidelines.

From: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/techmanvol1/Ch25-36/Chapter31/part7/part2/part_2.htm#26

31.7.26 Holidays

Previous guidance stated that an allowance for holidays should not be included in the calculation of funds available for an income payments contribution, other than in exceptional circumstances, for example where a dependant was sick or disabled. Whilst extravagance is not endorsed in this respect, it may be considered a reasonable domestic need to allow the bankrupt and his/her family to benefit from a non-extravagant holiday as a break from routine. Expensive or luxury holidays (particularly if the holiday is abroad) are likely to cause offence to creditors but an allowance of between £60-£80 per month (amounting to £720-£960 per annum) for a household of 4 people should allow the bankrupt and his/her family sufficient funds to take a moderate annual holiday. Should the bankrupt consider this allowance insufficient to fund a holiday, he/she should be informed that any additional holiday cost that he/she may wish to incur must be funded from the amount of surplus income left with him/her after deduction of the assessed IPA/IPO contribution.

and: http://www.insolvency.gov.uk/freedomofinformation/technical/casehelpmanual/Income%20Payment%20Agreement/ipa.htm

As far as holidays are concerned, it is accepted that a bankrupt is entitled to a break from routine and some allowance may be made for a modest holiday. Luxury foreign holidays would be likely to upset creditors but an allowance for a cheap holiday of £60 - £80 per month, which would amount to £720 - £960 p.a., would seem reasonable for a family of four. Any extra would then have to be funded out of surplus income.

Each case is assessed individually though, so what is allowed is never guaranteed.

You can read about IPA's/IPO's here:

http://bankruptcy.informe.com/viewtopic.php?t=18

Broken_hearted

It depends on the factors outlined. A holiday could be anything from a free break at Pontins to a £20,000 cruise. Maybe if you say what it is no details just the basic country/expence.

matty123_3

hi.thanks for all the replies,it is a 2 week self catering holiday to the canaries (not peak season) full cost £1300.
thanks

wherediditallgo

Lisa, I suggest you put details of the holiday on the 'Extra Information' page of your SOA. I'd also take details of the holiday to court with you (not the brochure :eek: ), including receipts etc showing the total cost & how much you've paid so far, so that the court staff or the OR can take copies if they wish, & then go through it again with the OR when you have your OR interview. You are allowed to put down £40pm on your SOA towards a holiday, so the only reasons I can think of why you wouldn't be able to go are (a) the holiday hasn't yet been paid for, i.e. you'd only paid a deposit, & (b) the holiday is extremely expensive & luxurious, e.g. a month-long cruise around the Caribbean. I can't see the OR telling you can't go as being bankrupt doesn't bar you from travelling, but if the £40pm that you're allowed isn't going to be enough, the OR is unlikely to allow you any more, so you'll have to find the extra from the living expenses the OR leaves you with after assessing your case. You'll then have to weigh up for yourself whether you can still afford to go or not.

Anyway, just be honest & upfront with the OR. An ordinary family holiday isn't likely to be a problem. It's when someone's SOA shows they can't pay their debts & yet they've managed to pay for an extremely expensive holiday that they risk questions being asked. The OR isn't going to let you put aside £200pm towards a holiday when that money could be going towards paying your creditors, but if you can manage to pay for the holiday from the money the OR judges you & your family need to live on, I can't see the OR stopping you going.

matty123_3

Hi,
thanks is there any reason to mention it to the OR.
thanks again

wherediditallgo

What you've got to bear in mind is that if you've still got a balance to pay on it, you'll have to find that money from somewhere. Although it's not a debt as such, it is a financial commitment. If you say nothing, your case is assessed & you don't get an IPA because your income is judged too low, the OR isn't going to be smiling down on you later on if he finds out that you managed to pay for an expensive holiday yet couldn't pay towards your debts. Yes, you might have been able to afford it from your living expenses & that's fair enough, but it still doesn't look very good. That's why I'd say something now rather than risk having to explain yourself at a later date.

Look at it from this point of view. If you were a creditor who didn't get the money owed to you because the person who owed you didn't earn enough, you might not be too happy but you'd probably accept it. But imagine how you'd feel if you later found out that they'd gone on a holiday that you couldn't afford because you were owed money, or you'd had to lay someone off because you were owed too much money to keep them on. You might be rather annoyed, & depending on the amounts involved you might want to take it up with the OR & get an explanation. That's why you're better off raising the subject yourself. You're not obliged to, but I think it's best to be honest about it. I'm in a similar situation - I'm off to the West Indies for 6 weeks later this year. I'm not paying for it, my parents are, but I've told the OR about it, so that if any questions arise about it at a later date, they know how it got paid for, etc. Given that it's already booked, if you don't say anything about your family holiday, people will wonder why & some may assume you had something to hide.