Have we messed up, tickets and all correspondence shredded

Averaged

OH received a ticket at place they work in early December, and unfortunately followed (wrong) Google advice to just ignore it as issued on private land. They then got a second ticket 'sometime in March' and ignored that too.

Ignoring went to the lengths of shredding the original ticket notices and everything through the door afterwards

Today we got a letter from 'XXX Solicitors' acting on behalf of the parking company with a demand for £xxx within 14 days. Are we stuffed with this one? I've read through all the standard newbie advice but it all seems to involve starting much earlier in the process for appealing and i'm not sure what to do if we've got no paperwork at all (apart from the most recent letter)

With the 'sometime in March' one, we had a letter a few weeks back which was probably the 28-56 days one mentioned in the flowchart. But that's shredded in the compost now too - only thing OH remembers is that it said it included photographic evidence but didn't include anything. Frustratingly that was definitely one to appeal as OH had valid parking on the car when the ticket was issued, but that got shredded too...

Aaaarrgh.

pogofish

You made a mistake by ignoring yes - but read the Newbies sticky to inform yourself about the current situation and your options. All is not lost.

Nodding_Donkey

Did you miss the bit in the newbies thread that says

TOO LATE TO APPEAL - YOU THINK?!

Averaged

Didn't miss TOO LATE TO APPEAL - YOU THINK?!the bold and underline pointed me in the right direction

But i'm a bit unsure how to go about appealing it when we don't have a PCN reference or anything else to work with, and OH is both the keeper and driver (i.e. the are you the keeper but not the driver? in that section doesn't apply)


edit: with the second one I think we should probably call/write and request a copy of the previous letter that actually contains the claimed evidence and appeal that, although we've made it harder by shredding the proof that we'd paid

Nodding_Donkey

Is there not a reference on the debt collectors letter?

Averaged

How does this look as a first go? As you'll see it is a bit of a mash-up of various sources here

---
I am writing as the registered keeper of XXXXXX to reject your claim for £xxx.00 to be paid within 14 days of the date of your letter (dated xx/04/2014).


You assert that ' have previously been written to by XXX requesting settlement of a parking charge. Due to the absence of payment or a valid appeal against the charge, [your] client has instructed [you] to recover the total amount due to them … [and your] pre-court collection charge of £xx


There is nothing to prevent your client from accepting an appeal at any stage, and indeed Parking on Private Land Appeals [POPLA] have confirmed that a code can be issued by the operator at any time. I therefore request copies of all correspondence that you claim have been sent by XXX Ltd, so I can form the basis of my appeal at this time.


Without predudice to any other matters that may be raised at appeal, I note that the demand for payment (prior to addition of your fees) has no relationship to the loss that would have been suffered by the Landowner in this case, and therefore is for an unreasonable amount. The British Parking Association [BPA] code of practice states:

19.5 If the parking charge that the driver is being asked to pay is for a breach of contract or act of trespass, this charge must be based on the genuine pre-estimate of loss that you suffer.

19.6 If your parking charge is based upon a contractually agreed sum, that charge cannot be punitive or unreasonable.


Your letter gives no indication of how your client has based their claim; I therefore request your client provides a detailed breakdown of how the amount of this charge was arrived at. I am aware from previous POPLA adjudications that the cost of running the business may not be included in these pre-estimate losses. Any allagation of civil trespass is denied, but if this is the basis of your client's claim then the driver would be only be liable for damages owed to the owner/occupier if they have suffered a loss. Since no damage occurred in the car park and as the car park was not completely full while the car was on site then this charge is clearly out of all proportion.


If your client is not prepared to accept these initial points, then I request an opportunity to raise a more detailed appeal; if this request or a subsequent appeal is rejected, then I would suggest that this matter is resolved using POPLA, the bespoke ADR for private parking, to save wasted costs and the court's time.


I note that you subsequently suggest that '[your] client may now instruct [you] to take legal action in the County Court'; your letter then highlights substantial 'illustrative' additional costs. If we use POPLA, as you are aware your costs will be limited. Failure to agree to my offer of both parties abiding by a POPLA decision would be evidence of you and/or your client failing to mitigate your alleged loss which I will draw the court's attention. I will also invite the Judge to apply the principle of Halsey v Milton Keynes General NHS Trust [2004] EWCA Civ 576 regarding costs.

If you reject this resolution and proceed to court I will robustly oppose any costs over and above the £27 that BPA Ltd charge for each POPLA appeal and will in my first defence statement, ask the court to stay the case and insist on a POPLA decision instead.


Furthermore, your letter then highlights the impact of having a court judgement registered against the keeper (indeed, more than half of your letter stresses 'illustrative' costs and the impact of any judgement). As the Keeper of a Vehicle at the Date of an Event [KADOE] contract between your client and the DVLA states that


The Customer shall abide by the OFT Debt Collection Guidance whenever it seeks to recover payment of unpaid Parking Charges from any person.


Raising the issue of additional costs and the impact to the keeper's credit rating at this stage is clearly designed to intimidate, at odds with OFT guidance on use of the threat of court action. Should it be your client's intention to start court proceedings, you must provide a Letter Before Claim which complies with the requirements of Annex A Para 2 of the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct. Please also note that a failure and/or refusal to comply with the Practice Direction will result in an immediate referral to the Solicitors Regulation Authority for breach of the principles contained in the SRA Handbook.

In the meantime, and in the absence of a letter before claim, you should place a note on your file to the effect that this charge is disputed and your firm is required to cease and desist all further contact with me unless it is to address one of the following issues:

- a rejection my initial request to clarify the basis of the charge as detailed above, along with either instructions on how to lodge a full appeal or a POPLA code, or

- confirmation that this matter is not proceeding and the charge is cancelled.


If I do not receive a response clearly addressing one or more of these points within 35 days of the above date, I will regard the rejection as accepted and the matter closed.

Coupon-mad

Yep looks OK even at this hour!

Averaged

Happy to say they folded immediately after that letter... charge cancelled

Coupon-mad

That was a great letter! Well done!