BTL'ers are not evil are they??

TickersPlaysPop

Ok for the record....

I believe BTL landlords are not evil

I do not want to abolish BTL

However, I believe the current state of the housing market and the direction it is going is very socially devisive. House prices should never have been allowed to increase to the level they are now, and must not increase above inflation and wage increases. I believe, as I have repeated posted, that the housing market should never have been allowed to run as free as it has been. Housing is not a commodity to be traded and profited from, all it needs is slow growth over time so people have something at the end of their lives, not more rent payments until they die. The housing market should have been given much more regulation, rules and laws to prevent unsustainable growth. Those laws and regs should in designed to create an environment that attracts much more long term investment than there currently is, I.e. more pension fund investment in residential rather than the focus on commercial property. Reports have suggested there is a lot of money that could be used for house building in local authority pension funds. This is real money not borrowed money?

Labour have posted a leaflet through, we pledge to build 200000 houses a year by 2020. Is that enough or soon enough? NO! I think this is the highest pledge out of all of the parties, and I hope they adjust this as we approach the general election, and also give more detail of exactly what they will do to achieve it.

TickersPlaysPop

ukcarper wrote: »

The median full time male wage for the north west is £26,830 for a woman it is £21,679. The average price of a terrace house is £66k while a semi is £112k.

I agree the reduction in social housing was bad but restricting BTL will not increase social housing.

Thanks for the info....

You used median, why is that? Your choice of median has made me think about the distribution of the wage data. What is the median, mode and mean of the data set you have?

Aassuming the median is the best average to use in the situation, it shows the wage to house price ratio is on the edge of affordability for borrowers. We have been experiencing, and are facing a period of house price increase above inflation and wage growth.... so.... we are looking at houses moving quite quickly away from the hands of potential owner occupiers right now as we discuss this topic.

But even if these figures are the best, it is not the best indicator of whether poeple can afford to buy. Criteria for borrowing looks at a lot of things, whether you're self employed, permanent or contract employed, full time part time, how long you have been in the job, how often you have moved around, how long you have lived in the UK etc etc.... I think a lot of those who on paper earn enough would still not be able to borrow to buy a home. On top of this, borrowers have just tightened the acceptance criteria.

So all considered, the data figures you reported are supporting my statement that cheap properties does not necessarily mean people can afford them, and it seems this might be the case in the area of the UK you mentioned.

chucky

chucky wrote: »

I never mentioned any guaranteed growth, that's a different answer to a different question.

How about if you try and answer the question for a change instead of avoiding it just to put some soundbites in... Let's try again, it's not hard.

Who is going to live in all these houses that you want to be built?

chucky wrote: »

It's not me misrepresenting you, it's you misrepresenting yourself.

Who is going to live in all these houses that you want to build?

How about if you answer the questions Tickers?

If you feel running away because you don't have an answer is fine just let me know.

TickersPlaysPop

chucky wrote: »

How about if you answer the questions Tickers?

If you feel running away because you don't have an answer is fine just let me know.

It not running away. If you truly want to engage with me you would have been more courteous and welcoming. I find your posts rude, disrespectful, and ignorant of my historical posts.

I feel your question is a quick easy way to change the topic and bat the ball back into my court. I think, after being quite obnoxious towards me there is moral obligation for you to answer your own question as demonstration of your willingness to engage with me.

MrRee_2

Tickers, your opinions seem to be those of a dictator - not the realisation that we live and work in a free market.

Could a communist state hold the conditions to which you aspire?

You see, in the UK, I can sell my labour for a price I want - as long as someone is happy to buy at that price.

Same with houses, anyone will sell for what another will pay - saying that they shouldn't buy means nothing as they have the means to buy so will.

The communist state appeals to those who are the 'also rans' in life .....

Aberdeenangarse

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

It not running away. If you truly want to engage with me you would have been more courteous and welcoming. I find your posts rude, disrespectful, and ignorant of my historical posts.

I'm afraid that's what's happened to this Forum Tickers, turned into a bullies playground.Chuncky's already been PPR'd a couple of times. The dear departed MrPricklepants has been replaced by his alto ego MrRee, and as for mayonnaise........he's another of chuncky's little trolls,

MrRee_2

And here comes angryarse/lindaD/re-wired........

ukcarper

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

Thanks for the info....

You used median, why is that? Your choice of median has made me think about the distribution of the wage data. What is the median, mode and mean of the data set you have?

Aassuming the median is the best average to use in the situation, it shows the wage to house price ratio is on the edge of affordability for borrowers. We have been experiencing, and are facing a period of house price increase above inflation and wage growth.... so.... we are looking at houses moving quite quickly away from the hands of potential owner occupiers right now as we discuss this topic.

But even if these figures are the best, it is not the best indicator of whether poeple can afford to buy. Criteria for borrowing looks at a lot of things, whether you're self employed, permanent or contract employed, full time part time, how long you have been in the job, how often you have moved around, how long you have lived in the UK etc etc.... I think a lot of those who on paper earn enough would still not be able to borrow to buy a home. On top of this, borrowers have just tightened the acceptance criteria.

So all considered, the data figures you reported are supporting my statement that cheap properties does not necessarily mean people can afford them, and it seems this might be the case in the area of the UK you mentioned.

I used median because it's lower than mean and it shows 50% of single working people could afford to buy an average terrace house and if in a couple a semi. A mortgage of 2x earnings is not on the edge of affordability. That's not to say there are not parts of the country where prices are unaffordable to people on median earnings.

MrRee_2

I'm smarter than your average bear, I grant you that, BUT .... why is it so hard to understand for some people that houses ARE always affordable - to someone!

That 'someone' may not be you - and you may feel resentment to those who are that 'someone' - but PLEASE let's stop pretending that houses are in some way unaffordable!!

People are buying property, people are paying the asking prices (or higher in most cases), these people are successful youngsters, youngsters who have help from family, old people who are looking for an income, successful people moving up the ladder, people moving downwards ............... but, without exception, the properties these people are buy ARE AFFORDABLE!

Cheapest money in history, unemployment down, wages up ....... the only people who cannot engage in this bonanza are those who, for whatever reason, cannot secure enough funds to buy. But it is as it has always been.

Today, given the favourable economic situation most find themselves, there is absolutely ZERO reason why the winners in society cannot do whatever they want to .....

TickersPlaysPop

It worries me that it is only me that can see these things....

Houses are bought, yes.... but what standards of living? Are people and families being forced into smaller houses etc? This is the socially divisive nature of what is going on with the housing market.

Also the joint income mortgage borrowing trap.... many people do this and don't think ahead... get pregnant and then have to turn to parents for child care while both new parents need to return to work within 1 yr of the birth. I know this first hand with a sibling. Again another socially divisive aspect of housing.

Also another direction we are heading is very long term mortgages, if this house price increase continues.... which is unlikely to drop if house building continues to drag. Again a another socially divisive aspect to what is going on.

I'm no communist, or one of the unlucky ones ( or as you like to say... Work shy layabouts). I work hard in a business development company have a home for my family and feel fortunate... but I am disadvantaged with an over active conscious and empathy for those that are less fortunate than me.