Sent money to the wrong bank account? You’ll soon get more help getting it back

Consumerist

BMN wrote: »

Lol not without your permission they don't. You have agreed for them to do that in the terms and conditions.

So that's the way to do it with bank accounts then.

Problem solved. So what's the hold up? I wonder.

Er . . . that would be the banks, I suspect.

antrobus

BMN wrote: »

It isn't as simple as that because the Data Protection Act does prevent them from doing so.......

The law has always regarded a bank as owing the duty of confidentiality to its customers - (the DPA notwithstanding) i.e. it's an implied contractual term under common law.

A bank will always disclose the identity of an account holder if compelled to by law. All that is required is a straightforward mechanism that permits an individual to ask a court to issue the necessary order.

antrobus

Consumerist wrote: »

The banks give out intimate details of my bank accounts to third parties without the need for any request e.g. CRAs. .I'm not happy for it to happen but the Data Protection Act doesn't stand in their way when it suits them - only when it might suit us.

If you're not happy with banks reporting the details of your credit to CRAs, then stop borrowing money from them.

That was easy, wasn't it.:)

Archi_Bald

BMN wrote: »

Lol not without your permission they don't. You have agreed for them to do that in the terms and conditions.

Very true, but Consumerist has a valid point.

If we can be made (effectively) to accept T&Cs that allow banks to pass a lot of our data to CRAs (from whence all sorts of other organisations can get at that lot of data), what is the reason that we cannot be made to agree that our account name will be made available to people who are sending money to our sort code and account? Why would you want to be anonymous if you receive a payment? What have you got to hide?

I would be very happy for banks to display my account name to anyone who wants to make a payment to me, either with PayM or Faster Payment or SO, if I could see similar information when I make payments with those methods. It still won't prevent me from making payments to a wrong account (nothing ever will) but it would help to see some sort of name next to the numbers when making a payment.

Given the dreadfully intrusive UK Press and the malicious nature of some individuals, may be we would need a law that prohibits the Press or anyone else to publish or exchange sort code / account number / name combinations, and that allows for very heavy penalties (such as tens of millions of pounds fine, life time bans from using a bank account and/or publishing any information) to be imposed on anyone who flaunts that law. But I can't really see any fundamental reason as to why people shouldn't be shown the account holder name when making a payment.

If I wanted to hide that I have a joint account with someone else, I can always open a sole account in my name only and ask for payments to be made to that account. If I wanted to hide my own name, it would most likely be because of some highly dubious come illegal undertaking and I can't actually think of any good reason at all why I should want to be paid by somebody who isn't allowed to know my name.

Archi_Bald

antrobus wrote: »

If you're not happy with banks reporting the details of your credit to CRAs, then stop borrowing money from them.

That was easy, wasn't it.:)

Not is was not easy. I am not borrowing a penny from any bank yet they have borrowed tens of thousands of me, and they are sharing my data freely with any other financial institution in the country.

With my permission, since I have agreed to the T&Cs. But I had no choice.

BMN

Consumerist wrote: »

So that's the way to do it with bank accounts then.

Problem solved. So what's the hold up? I wonder.

Er . . . that would be the banks, I suspect.

I suspect such as clause doesn't exist in the terms and conditions because:

• The costs outweigh the benefits (from the banks point of view)
• There is no legal or regulatory requirement
• Customer concerns about not wanting their details shared on the simple request of somebody else
• Such a system could be abused
• Even with your permission there is still potential for the Data Protection to be breached in other ways - e.g. concerns about how the data is going to be used

antrobus

Archi_Bald wrote: »

Not is was not easy. I am not borrowing a penny from any bank yet they have borrowed tens of thousands of me, and they are sharing my data freely with any other financial institution in the country....

And what data would that be?

Archi_Bald wrote: »

...With my permission, since I have agreed to the T&Cs. But I had no choice.

If you want credit, it's a quid pro quo.

antrobus

Archi_Bald wrote: »

.... But I can't really see any fundamental reason as to why people shouldn't be shown the account holder name when making a payment......

I can.

The only way that could be achieved is if there was one Very Big Database that held the details of every bank account in the country.

There are a number of arguments that could be made both for and against such a development. But one thing I'm certain of, if you want that in order to avoid the consequences of making a mistake when making a payment, you'll be paying for the cost of setting up that Very Big Database. 'Cos I certainly won't be contributing.:)

ChumpusRex

BMN wrote: »

If you claim the transfer was an error but the recipient claims it was genuine who should the bank believe and side with?

The receiving bank has no authority to return the money, if the recipient claims that it is a genuine transfer. The receiving bank can only return the money with the explicit permission of the receiving account holder. If the account holder refuses permission for the return, then that's the end of the matter as far as the bank is concerned.

However, a lot of banks now have some small print in the terms and conditions, which read to the effect of "By using this account, you give your consent for us to return any payments which we believe may have been credited to your account in error." In other words, if a sender claims that a transfer to your account was made in error, the reciving bank already has consent to return an allegedly incorrect payment.

So, while the recipient refusing permission for return of the funds, is the end of the matter for the bank, it is not the end of the matter for the recipient.

The recipient commits the crime of "theft by finding" if he fails to return money that he knows to have been provided in error. The sender merely has to make a complaint to the police with the receiving sort-code and account number, and the police will contact the recipient of the funds and investigate the circumstances of the transaction.

ChumpusRex

BMN wrote: »

Lol not without your permission they don't. You have agreed for them to do that in the terms and conditions.

Banks will have made clear in their T&C that they may pass your data on to CRAs, etc.

However, the DPA is very clear. Consent is NOT required to pass personal data on to 3rd parties, provided that the disclosure is "fair". In fact, the ICO, in their guidance notes use the example of the CRA or debt collector, as a specific example where disclosure without consent is acceptable.