Most incompetent solicitor ever...worst of all it ours!!!!

Lilly_RW

princeofpounds wrote: »

If you have had access for many years without a license then you are likely to have acquired an easement anyway?

Sorry I'm not sure I was clear enough there! The house we're buying is in this Village and subject to being landlocked. We don't live there at the mo. The solicitor said that she checked and only 2 other houses in the village have had amendments made to their deeds to prevent landlocking once the village green came under the Parish control. Its all happened in the last month and had the Parish not taken control before we began the housing process, I think this whole thing might have been overlooked

I'm not sure of any such covenants on the properties before the village took control from the council, even though the deeds do show that the 'green' encompasses our entryways. I guess its purely a precautionary measure. Better to be safe than sorry!

I'm just curious as to how long a 'deed alteration' should take.

Land_Registry

Taking both issues as raised re filbrit and Lilly_RW

Historically it is not unusual to find a benefiting title making no mention of a right of way enjoyed over another title whilst the servient (subjective) title does refer. The changes in policy/procedures over the years and often the time lapse between each property being registered may have been a reason for this.

Since the last significant change in legislation, 2002, things are a little clearer re such rights (easements) as to take effect in law both the benefit and servient aspects have to be registered but this really relates to rights granted after the legislative changes.

In my experience where the conveyancer is aware that such a right exists but it is not registered they will seek to repair the apparent anomaly rather than risk, as others have suggested, simply leaving as is. As filbrit suggests the right still exists but why leave the risk in place or any doubt? - your solicitor should be able to explain to you the legal reasons behind their wanting the right registered now rather than either not at all or at a later date.

Access rights for a property are naturally very important and Lilly_RW's situation is perhaps slightly different as you refer to being landlocked after a change of circumstances. Filbrit's right related to a rear access only it seems.

Being landlocked is clearly a significant issue but the process should be helped by the changes already made to the other two titles as mentioned.

How long an application to register the right will take can vary and often depends on the evidence submitted being in order and deemed sufficient. Such applications will also be considered by a senior officer at Land Registry and/or often a Lawyer as these are not run of the mill applications and can require a wider understanding of the law around such matters. In some cases we may also serve notice on the servient landowner where the land is registered, which can lead to additional correspondence.

All of that sounds quite gloomy as far as timescales are concerned but simply sets out some of the issues that can be faced. However if everything is in order and no issues arise registration can happen within a 6 to 8 week timespan although it can often be a little longer.

But the best thing to do is to check with us as and when the application has been submitted and a few weeks have passed. Simply use the Contact Us email option and provide the specific details and we can refer it to the relevant office dealing with the matter. I should though emphasise that the solicitor involved should be able to assist on timescales and checking on progress as well.

Ivana_Tinkle

Have a look at the Gardenlaw forums. Access rights are one of the main things people fall out with their neighbours over and the implications are huge: enormous legal bills, horrible fights and vendettas, unsellable properties. Seriously, your solicitor is doing the right thing.

filbrit

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

I assume that this thread and https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4954038 are both related

Hi Yes

you are correct they are both related. My question was more on, if it has been on the deeds of the neighboring property why has not it been rectified and added to the deeds of the property we are purchasing which has changed ownership 3 times in the past 30 years the last being 5 years ago? Can you please advise, if it is on register of the neighboring property do we have less right as it was on ours?

many thanks

princeofpounds

Excellent feedback from the land registry again, many thanks for enlightening us on your perspective.

filbrit

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

Taking both issues as raised re filbrit and Lilly_RW

Historically it is not unusual to find a benefiting title making no mention of a right of way enjoyed over another title whilst the servient (subjective) title does refer. The changes in policy/procedures over the years and often the time lapse between each property being registered may have been a reason for this.

Since the last significant change in legislation, 2002, things are a little clearer re such rights (easements) as to take effect in law both the benefit and servient aspects have to be registered but this really relates to rights granted after the legislative changes.

In my experience where the conveyancer is aware that such a right exists but it is not registered they will seek to repair the apparent anomaly rather than risk, as others have suggested, simply leaving as is. As filbrit suggests the right still exists but why leave the risk in place or any doubt? - your solicitor should be able to explain to you the legal reasons behind their wanting the right registered now rather than either not at all or at a later date.

Access rights for a property are naturally very important and Lilly_RW's situation is perhaps slightly different as you refer to being landlocked after a change of circumstances. Filbrit's right related to a rear access only it seems.

Being landlocked is clearly a significant issue but the process should be helped by the changes already made to the other two titles as mentioned.

How long an application to register the right will take can vary and often depends on the evidence submitted being in order and deemed sufficient. Such applications will also be considered by a senior officer at Land Registry and/or often a Lawyer as these are not run of the mill applications and can require a wider understanding of the law around such matters. In some cases we may also serve notice on the servient landowner where the land is registered, which can lead to additional correspondence.

All of that sounds quite gloomy as far as timescales are concerned but simply sets out some of the issues that can be faced. However if everything is in order and no issues arise registration can happen within a 6 to 8 week timespan although it can often be a little longer.

But the best thing to do is to check with us as and when the application has been submitted and a few weeks have passed. Simply use the Contact Us email option and provide the specific details and we can refer it to the relevant office dealing with the matter. I should though emphasise that the solicitor involved should be able to assist on timescales and checking on progress as well.

Hi there

thanks for this absolutely thorough explanation. You suggested that why not change it now rather than later as it may leave risk?

If it is on the neighboring propertys deeds, does it increase the risk if we do not have it on the deeds of property we are buying? If it is on the neighboring properties deeds alone, considering this is public document, allow them to not comply even if it clearly states that the property we are buying does not have it on the deeds?

Can we change it instead when we have moved into the property than risk losing the sale with the vendors pulling out?

Many thanks

Land_Registry

filbrit - the questions around risk are ones you really need to discuss with your solicitor as risks can cover more than just simply the right itself i.e. the risk that someone may challenge the right or the risk that a future buyer or mortgage lender may refuse to buy or lend.

The solicitor is in effect seeking to protect you against any future claims that the right is invalid and it is their assessment which counts as they are acting for you in the purchase. The fact that the seller and their solicitor perhaps had no concerns when they bought the property can help influence the size of the risk but it does not remove it entirely. Your solicitor is paid to assess those risks and advise accordingly. We cannot provide such legal advice.

Standard conveyancing practice is to check for such rights which affect the property being sold. You do not mention the circumstances which led to next door's title also being checked although it may simply have been 'experience' which led to the solicitor asking the relevant questions as the property was a terrace property and understanding what shared or rear access is available would be a logical thing to raise with the seller. Experience of such matters is a valuable asset and so to is a knowledge of the law and the pitfalls/risks which exist.

I would however stress that providing the right was registered correctly against the servient title prior to October 2003 then an application to register the benefit is likely to succeed but we cannot confirm that until an actual application is submitted and assessed. Your solicitor I suspect is aware of this.

IF an application was made to register it would not be a simple case of 'next door's title says it is subject to the right so this title must have the benefit' and we would have to investigate the original registration of the servient title entry to ensure that the right had been registered correctly and the appropriate action taken at the time. Neither I, or indeed your solicitor, would know if that were the case of course so a risk does exist from a registration perspective.

For that reason your solicitor may take the view that the risk can easily be removed by the seller applying, albeit so late in the day re the sale/purchase. The option to apply (or not) after you have bought is though presumably still one for you and your solicitor to decide upon.

zzzLazyDaisy

filbrit wrote: »

Can we change it instead when we have moved into the property than risk losing the sale with the vendors pulling out?

Are you paying cash for the property? If so, you can assess the risk yourself and ignore your solicitor's advice if you so wish, it is your call.

However, if you are buying with the aid of a mortgage, then the matter is probably out of your hands. Why? Because your solicitor also acts for your lender, which will have a charge over the property and will be looking to protect its interest. The solicitor must inform the lender if any issues crop up which may affect the value of the property - an unprotected right of way over neighbouring land is likely to fall into that category. The result is that the lender can revise the mortgage offer downwards to take account of this, or (more likely) pull the mortgage offer altogether.

The seller may huff and puff and threaten to put the house back on the market, but will meet the same problem with the next potential buyer - and their solicitor will/should advise them of this.

Your problem is that you have been caught by a tightening up of the way these issues are dealt with now, and you will not be on your own.