Late Father's Debt

mandyc

First of all I don't know if this is the right place to post this thread but I'm looking for a bit of advice.

My father died last month. He had been a resident in an excellent nursing home for five years. My mother, who died three years ago, had always dealt with the money. I don't think he had ever written a cheque or paid a household bill in his life.

When she died their joint bank account was transferred into his sole name. They lived in sheltered accommodation when she died so there were no assets except a small balance in the bank account. For some reason the invoice for the nursing home came addressed to my husband everymonth and this was paid by standing order out of Dad's bank account.

I have just paid the funeral expenses of £2,700 (this was a really basic cremation). The bank have just paid the residue of a few hundred pounds to me, his next of kin.

Today, I had quite a bomshell. I received a statement from the owners of the care home going back to 2005. He had been underpaying by about £50 each month and there was a total owing of just over £1,600.

I spoke to their credit controller today and said how shocked I was and coud not understand that although I received an invoice each month that I had never received a statement. If I had realised that Dad was underpaying I could have arranged to increase the standing order but they admit they have never sent a statement.

My question is - am I legally liable to pay this money. Morally I know I should pay it and I will, but at the moment I feel really shocked and upset. I am considering offering to pay £50 per month which is approximately what the underpayment was.

I have spoken to the Company's credit controller and told him that I will need a few weeks to sort this out which did not seen to be a problem. I must say I was really pleased with my father's care in this home and would not like to end my relationship with them on our sour note.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

Mandy

ailuro2

If they didn't tell you when he was alive, then why tell you now?

I'd make a point of buying something for the area he was in- nice big box of chocs to say thanks to his carers, but no more than that.

Debt dies with him, we found this out when fil died and left behind a big credit card bill- we weren't in touch with him,and it was a few worrisome days before we found out we weren't liable.

As for the care home's credit controller- I'm sure they know debt dies with the person, and any money from the estate is what they can claim from, a bit harsh to let you think you need to pay this surprise bill.:mad:

mandyc

Thanks for the advice.

The home is part of a national chain so I don't think the people we have dealt with at the home have anything to do with the fees.

When he died there was small balance (£50 or so) in his personal account at the home. This was topped up by him or us regularly and the money was used for his haircuts and personal toilet items or trips out etc. When he died we left this money "to be used for the benefit of the residents".

After the funeral expenses were paid I divided the rest of his money between his three grandchildren, as I think this is what my mum and dad would have wanted. I am quite happy to tell the care company that I understand this debt dies with my dad but could they make me get the money back from his grandchildren (or how would they know what was left?).

I am not rushing to sort this out because I am still grieving for my father and this is added stress so I am going to take my time and deal with it when I feel able. They waited two years to tell me of the debt so they can wait for me now!!

Jamz

I'm afraid you will have to take the money back off the grandchildren to pay the bill, until all the debts are settled on the estate then no money should be dished out.


Sorry but you have to pay this bill with what ever is left from the estate.

mandyc

I thought that might be the case. What I think I will do is leave the money with the grandchildren and offer to pay the outstanding amount off at £50 per month (which is the approximately the amount underpaid each month), This will take about two and half years to pay off but I won't notice it. I think this is only reasonable as although they sent me an invoice every month they did not inform either me or my father that there was an debt building up.

Thanks for your help.

Jamz

I don't think it will work like that as the lump sum should be available from the estate.

how much was left in the estate? Enough to cover the debt?

Nicki

I'm really surprised by the way your father's estate has been dealt with. Did he leave a will? If so, the executors had a duty to investigate all debts and settle them before paying out legacies. I thought (though may be wrong) that part of the probate process involved advertising for unknown creditors. If he died intestate, then the process should have been similar, but letters administration should have been applied for rather than probate.

On that basis, I think you have made a mistake and that as your father's money was paid out to you, that you have an obligation (up to the value of your father's estate including any possessions he owned) to pay this bill. If you fail to do so in full, the nursing home would be entitled to go to your grandchildren direct and demand the money back from them, as it should never have been paid out to them in the first instance. There is no legal reason why they should accept your offer of payment by instalment, and I'm sorry to say it is you rather than they who are in the wrong on this occasion.

TheWaltons_3

Nursing homes often do stuff like that when an elderly person dies - they then invoice for loads of shaving cream/razors/soap/anything else they can screw from the estate as they know there is money around.

mandyc

The only assets were the bank account which amounted to £3,300. As he did not leave a will (I am the only child) and the amount was so low I did not have to apply for probate, the bank just passed the money to me. I had to sign to say I would pay the funeral expenses.

When the funeral expenses were paid there was £600 left which I divided between the grandchildren.

His only other assets were a watch and some pictures which are virtually nil value.

I will tell them this and offer them the £600.

As part of his care was funded by the council I thought I would check that he should have been paying this money and not them.

Gingham_Ribbon

You need to get advice on this since you never received a bill or statement outlining the debt until now. I think you need to speak to either a solicitor or the CIB. Good luck with sorting it out. There is a possibility that they are being dishonest. I don't see why they never asked for the money before now. Check all the statements carefully.

Errata

mandyc wrote: »

The only assets were the bank account which amounted to £3,300. As he did not leave a will (I am the only child) and the amount was so low I did not have to apply for probate, the bank just passed the money to me. I had to sign to say I would pay the funeral expenses.

When the funeral expenses were paid there was £600 left which I divided between the grandchildren.

His only other assets were a watch and some pictures which are virtually nil value.

I will tell them this and offer them the £600.

As part of his care was funded by the council I thought I would check that he should have been paying this money and not them.

Talk to the council finance department ASAP (social work team for older peopl will give you the right phone number). Councils will fund the cost of fees totally once the residents assets fall to about £12,500. If your dad only had 3k left someone has made the biggest ball$up imaginable !!!!!!
Don't give the home a penny until you and the council have sorted this out.