No permission for French Doors - selling up

electricdreams

I had exactly the same thing done - installed French doors into a space where previously there was a door and a window. My builder who installed them wasn't fensa registered and so I got building control round to sign it off. It was a few years ago so I can't remember how much it cost but it wasn't a vast amount. I know it took them bloomin ages to turn up - months and months - and once they finally did, all they did was look at them for a few seconds and then leave, but I got the certificate. I'm currently selling up and had to provide it as the question was asked on the TR1 form. But it's only building regs you need, and only if the installer wasn't fensa registered.

(You could actually get an indemnity policy instead to keep the buyers solicitor happy. That'd cost about £15 and cover against enforcement from the council due to lack of building regs)

cgray25

Thanks ED, that's kind of reassuring...apart from the "took months" bit! Again, we're in a 'chain' so that wouldn't be good.

The indemnity policy sounds good but I'm not sure if that would generally be deemed an acceptable substitute by the buyer's lawyer?

Jaycee_Dove

Interestingly, I posted a possibly relevant case on another thread yesterday.


We bought this house 12 years ago and are now selling. Nothing was said about a problem over French doors by our solicitor or mortgage company on purchase.


In preparation for selling we paid off the mortgage and got the deeds. These revealed that the Sun Lounge at the rear of the house was approved for planning permission over 40 years ago but as an open lounge. The application to add French doors was rejected on the grounds that the ceiling was too low for it to be a habitable room.


However, the sun lounge DOES have French Doors and appears to have done so from the 1970s when built. I did some digging and discovered that building regs were changed soon after it was built lowering the roof height for habitable rooms. It was literally only about 2 inches under the permitted height when turned down but then became well over.


Nonetheless, no record exists that the owners (3 owners back) ever applied for permission to add the French Doors. They just did four decades ago.


Had they not done so the Sun Lounge would have literally been a straight walk into the house as it was built as per the passed plans onto the kitchen just by knocking a wall down. So it would have been absurd not to have a door of some sort.


Anyhow, though this never came up in conveyances of the house in the 80s or when we bought in 2002 the solicitor for the people buying the house from us say we have to provide a £21 Indemnity Insurance in case the council tell the new owners to knock down the 40 year old Sun Lounge because there is no record that there was permission given to add the French Doors.


I have suggested to the purchaser that we are happy to take the door off on the day we move, leaving the Sun Lounge exactly matching the plans that were approved. They can then decide whether to have an al fresco house open to all passers by or put the doors back on and risk that the council would really be so daft as to take an interest in something like this that has been there since the early 1970s.


Our solicitor still says we need to pay the £21 for the policy as it is our responsibility despite we having no way of knowing these doors were remotely illegal.

cgray25

Thanks Jaycee - I spoke with my neighbour again, it would seem I got slightly the wrong end of the stick over permission. He had submitted plans to the council which contained the doors on them, however, that was by the wayside, the plans were really about their attic.

BUT, the problem may remain (building control side at least) because I had told the surveyor we put them in without permission (thought honesty was best!) and now it says to check for them in the survey. But, it may be that the lawyer knows this isn't an issue, so I'll just wait and see...all be it, a little apprehensively.

If an indemnity by passed the issue for £20 why would anyone ever bother with BC?

franklee

Is your buyer getting a mortgage? If so then their solicitor will disclose stuff to the lender who may want the paperwork in order. If your buyer is paying cash then they may not mind.

Remember you have to disclose this type of thing on the property information form as it asks if you have installed replacement windows or glazed doors since April 2002. It also asks if the seller is aware if there is any work that doesn't have all necessary consents etc.

You could ask your solicitor now as otherwise it may well hold up exchange at a late stage. Your solicitor should be able to tell you the quickest resolution.

Can't believe anyone would stress about paying £21 for an indemnity policy which is tiny in the scale of moving house.

cgray25

Thankfully it's a cash buy, but it's an older lady who didn't even really grasp the stamp duty, so I think she'd spook quite easily if the lawyer suggested there was an issue.

I'd happily pay £200 if it gave piece of mind that everything went smoothly!

KinderSuprise

Double Glazing installer here.

All you need is a Fensa qualified installer to put them in or pay for Fensa to inspect afterwards.

cgray25

Thanks Kinder - I'm north of the border though! Reading through Fensa's site, it would suggest I can't use them?