Polish tenant

mickflynn39

I don't think she is that clued up on benefits. She's not clueless but I know a lot more than her and I've only been looking at the situation for less than a week.

For the last 6 months she has been really struggling (I only found out less than a week ago). She's been borrowing money and not paying some of her bills. She is gradually getting into a lot of debt. If she'd been getting the benefits that I think she should have been getting she'd have been very comfortable.

She's failed the Habitual Residency test twice before. This tells me she's not that clued up as she should easily have passed it. Her baby was born on 3rd April but she hadn't claimed Tax Credits for him. I put this right on Friday.

I detect an undercurrent amongst some of the posters that I am a naive fool or there is something in it for me. I can confirm that I am not a naive fool but admit there is something in it for me. Not what some of you may think. I really do despair of human nature sometimes.

What's in it for me? A few things. I can sleep easier in my bed knowing I'm doing my best to help someone in a very difficult stressful situation. Once her finances are sorted she should be able to pay me the rent she owes as she will have her benefits backdated. She will be able to pay me my rent going forwards. If she decides to move into a council house she will find me a new tenant so there will be no void. If I need to find new tenants for my other properties I have a pool of Polish people who think I am a great landlord (her friends and family).

What is the alternative? I don't help her and she struggles and gets depressed and into a financial mess that she can't sort out. I end up having to evict her which can be a long messy process that could cost me a lot of money. I think I know which is the best way of handling things for all concerned.

So to all you out there that think I have an ulterior motive and can't understand why I would help someone in need, all I can say is I hope you don't find yourself in a spot of bother in the future with no-one willing to help you. The world would be a lot better place if people helped their fellow man instead of just thinking about themselves all the time.

Before anyone asks, I am not religious. In fact just the opposite. I am a devout atheist. Rant over.

mickflynn39

I wouldn't assume that she will pass the Right to Reside test, especially if her husband is unemployed. It's a very complex area and the person to whom she gave all her information would have no idea if she was likely to pass it, she only gathers the information.

She has lived here for 6 years and has a lot of work history (a lot more than I initially thought). She was even working for a short while while she was 3 months pregnant and her husband became a house husband.

From all the stuff I've read about this test on the internet I'd be totally shocked if she fails. She has more than enough to pass the test without having to involve her husband.

sh1981

von wrote: »

I wouldn't assume that she will pass the Right to Reside test, especially if her husband is unemployed. It's a very complex area and the person to whom she gave all her information would have no idea if she was likely to pass it, she only gathers the information.

You might want to look at HRT (Habitual residency test) as well.

However I will put in BOLD what applies as far as Right to Reside is concerned:

All EEA nationals and their family members have the right to reside in any other member state for a period of three months.
To have a right to reside after three months, you must:

• Be a 'qualified person', or
• Have the right of permanent residence, or
• Have a derivative right to reside.

To be a 'qualified person' you must be a:

• Jobseeker (for up to 6 months - a limited extension may be granted if you pass a Genuine Prospect of Work assessment.)
• Worker (must earn over £153 a week - the level at which national insurance starts being paid)
• Self-employed person
• Self-sufficient person
• Student.

You normally acquire permanent right of residence by:

• living in the UK as a qualified person for five years; or
• in some cases, people who have worked or been self-employed in the UK and have retired may also acquire a right of permanent residence.

To have a 'derivative right to reside':

• You must be the primary carer of a child under the age of 18 who is in education, and
• You must have previously been a worker while the child was in the UK, and
• The child would not be able to continue their education if you had to leave the UK.

People who have a right to reside only because of the initial three month rule will not satisfy the 'right to reside' aspect of the habitual residence test for:

• Income Support
• income-related Employment and Support Allowance
• Pension Credit
• Housing Benefit (Housing Benefit: England, Scotland, Wales) (Housing Benefit: Northern Ireland)
• Council Tax support.

All EEA nationals/family members within the initial three month right of residence period can currently claim Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit. However, from 1 July 2014 a new residency rule will apply to jobseekers who wish to claim these benefits, like that in place for Jobseeker's Allowance.

See the bit in RED above, it has an AND condition, not OR, but an AND. However also see above in PURPLE.

About HRT
'Habitual residence in fact'

Proving someone is ‘habitually resident in fact’ relies on case law as there is no definition in the Regulations of ‘habitual residence’.
Some key points:

• You must be resident (and in some cases have been so for at least 3 months)
• You must show intention to settle (not necessarily permanently).

You may be accepted as habitually resident from your first day if you are returning to the country and you were previously habitually resident or you or a member of your family is a national of, or has worked in, another European Economic Area (EEA) state.
British citizens who have lived abroad and are returning to the UK will still have to show that they are 'habitually resident in fact'.

http://www.turn2us.org.uk/information__resources/benefits/migrants/habitual_residence_test_hrt.aspx

Remember, the op said she has been in UK for 6 years.

In short: She will pass.

sh1981

specialboy wrote: »

Did you know the word 'gullible' isn't in the dictionary?

The word 'dictionary' is not validated in any book.

sh1981

mickflynn39 wrote: »

I don't think she is that clued up on benefits. She's not clueless but I know a lot more than her and I've only been looking at the situation for less than a week.

For the last 6 months she has been really struggling (I only found out less than a week ago). She's been borrowing money and not paying some of her bills. She is gradually getting into a lot of debt. If she'd been getting the benefits that I think she should have been getting she'd have been very comfortable.

She's failed the Habitual Residency test twice before. This tells me she's not that clued up as she should easily have passed it. Her baby was born on 3rd April but she hadn't claimed Tax Credits for him. I put this right on Friday.

I detect an undercurrent amongst some of the posters that I am a naive fool or there is something in it for me. I can confirm that I am not a naive fool but admit there is something in it for me. Not what some of you may think. I really do despair of human nature sometimes.

What's in it for me? A few things. I can sleep easier in my bed knowing I'm doing my best to help someone in a very difficult stressful situation. Once her finances are sorted she should be able to pay me the rent she owes as she will have her benefits backdated. She will be able to pay me my rent going forwards. If she decides to move into a council house she will find me a new tenant so there will be no void. If I need to find new tenants for my other properties I have a pool of Polish people who think I am a great landlord (her friends and family).

What is the alternative? I don't help her and she struggles and gets depressed and into a financial mess that she can't sort out. I end up having to evict her which can be a long messy process that could cost me a lot of money. I think I know which is the best way of handling things for all concerned.

So to all you out there that think I have an ulterior motive and can't understand why I would help someone in need, all I can say is I hope you don't find yourself in a spot of bother in the future with no-one willing to help you. The world would be a lot better place if people helped their fellow man instead of just thinking about themselves all the time.

Before anyone asks, I am not religious. In fact just the opposite. I am a devout atheist. Rant over.

Good, don't ever let no one put a downer on you. People who can't do something themselves normally discourage others. All you have to remember is, to gain trust, loyalty and most importantly 'respect' of another human being, is the greatest achievement ever. You will get respect from her, for life. *thumbs up*

sh1981

mickflynn39 wrote: »

She has lived here for 6 years and has a lot of work history (a lot more than I initially thought). She was even working for a short while while she was 3 months pregnant and her husband became a house husband.

From all the stuff I've read about this test on the internet I'd be totally shocked if she fails. She has more than enough to pass the test without having to involve her husband.

Most people fail because of language barriers. I do not put it down to, as some people might put it, they should 'learn' english before they come here. I say its all because of inadequate translation facilities. Also giving french or spanish lessons in school, when in daily life you might come across more polish or hindi or urdu speaking people sounds to me a bit wrong really. If I was given free polish lessons, I would gladly volunteer to learn it.

mickflynn39

In her case her English is very good. She spent 9 years studying it in Poland. Her problem has been that she didn't know how to go about sorting her benefits out properly, a situation many vulnerable people find themselves in. After all, it is made difficult for a reason. To stop people getting what they are entitled to.

sh1981

mickflynn39 wrote: »

In her case her English is very good. She spent 9 years studying it in Poland. Her problem has been that she didn't know how to go about sorting her benefits out properly, a situation many vulnerable people find themselves in. After all, it is made difficult for a reason. To stop people getting what they are entitled to.

I fully agree with you. A lot of 'british' people dont even know what hardship payment is, or that it even exists.Information is all over the place. Plus not written too well either. Allow me to give an example

Notice the error in bold:

https://www.gov.uk/carers-allowance/eligibility

If you can’t get Carer’s Allowance, Jobcentre Plus will work out if the your benefits can be increased or if you can get other benefits.

NYM

mickflynn39 wrote: »

In her case her English is very good. She spent 9 years studying it in Poland.

For no reason other than curiosity, why did you post this in an earlier comment you made...

mickflynn39 wrote: »

..... her English is a bit limited ....

mickflynn39

Her English is very good but not good enough to fully understand what an English person on the other end of a phone is always saying. Also she herself doesn't feel it is very good and lacks confidence. Maybe a better choice of words would have been she is limited by her English. Also in face to face interviews she lacks confidence but if someone is there to help her with the odd word she is fine.