Buying goods using PayPal? You’ll get better protection from June

"If you buy goods using PayPal, you'll have longer to complain when things go wrong under changes from June..."
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Buying goods using PayPal? You’ll get better protection from June

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  • edited 21 April 2014 at 2:19AM
    PincherPincher
    6.6K Posts
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    edited 21 April 2014 at 2:19AM
    I think they assume their physical address checking is water proof.

    I received a letter from PayPal just after a tenant moved out, welcoming somebody with an unknown name who just opened a new account. The idiot was so inept, she left it too late to apply. It probably occurred to her last minute that she could abuse the address this way. She also flytipped a neighbour's front garden with all the rubbish that she built-up over the tenancy, including mail with her name and address in the bags!

    If PayPal releases the funds to the seller straightaway, the seller simply runs away with the money, then abandons the disposable account.

    PayPal just needs to hold onto the money until the buyer confirms receipt and maybe validity. They can have a custodian option that the seller can offer the buyer. This way, PayPal has virtually no risk, so can even offer it for free. The problem is, some people are so !!!!less, they can't be bothered to lift a finger to confirm, once they have been to the concert. So PayPal needs to release the money automatically after, say 180 days, if no dispute has been lodged.
  • edited 16 April 2014 at 9:46PM
    BartyBoyBartyBoy Forumite
    406 Posts
    edited 16 April 2014 at 9:46PM
    I have just read the new PayPal User Agreement, my first impression is, 'why bother?'!

    I had a dispute with a company which I used PayPal to pay for an order. I did not receive what I ordered from this company, so I contacted PayPal to make a claim, but they refused to help me. They argued the order was custom made, therefore it fell outside of the Buyer Protection Policy. I asked PayPal what the difference was between custom made and non custom made items when it comes to SNAD.

    When a purchase is SNAD, buyers should be automatically entitled to a full refund, regardless what type of purchase it is.

    Furthermore, using PayPal is not protected by Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act. Although PayPal takes money from credit/debt cards and bank transfer, the card issuer will argue there is no direct link between the card issuer and the trader, so Section 75 makes no effect to the card issuer too. In reality it is more risky to use PayPal after all.

    Like me, I had a problem on a PayPal transaction, none of PayPal or the credit card issuer was willing to accept the claim, so I lost all my money in the end.

    Buying goods using PayPal? Think twice and don't bother!
  • spanglishspanglish Forumite
    573 Posts
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper
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    So now if you're a seller on eBay, an unscrupulous buyer has 180 days to put in a claim. As Paypal pretty much always sides with the buyer, I can see huge potential for abuse.
    best wins to date-£500, 48 theme park tickets, Holiday to Italy+£250, Venus makeover package, laptops, pro-audio gear, £500 B&Q, £1500 Gucci bag, £1000 Maplin
  • pugsley29pugsley29 Forumite
    715 Posts
    Part of the Furniture 500 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
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    Sounds good for buyers, but a nightmare for sellers, think I will sell on Gumtree from now on.
    Wishing you a lucky 2022: 🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀🍀
  • BartyBoyBartyBoy Forumite
    406 Posts
    180 days is almost 6 months. I am sure it is much easier for PayPal to tell sellers not to use its service instead...
  • magpiecottagemagpiecottage
    9.2K Posts
    1,000 Posts Combo Breaker
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    I have a CCJ against a Brian Routledge, trading as a business on ebay under the name BestPrice4 everything.

    He sold me an item which failed after 5½ months and refuses to honour my rights under SOGA and the Distance Selling Regulations. If the 180 limit had applied I would have been just inside it.
  • PayPal: U.K. buyers now to get 180-days protection

    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/apr/12/paypal-protection-extended-covered-digital-services

    Wow! Fee-free “rentals” for up to six months now! Obviously, “PreyPal” has either “lost all its marbles” or they are getting really desperate. Regardless, to me this move has about it the smell of a palliative care nursing home.

    The professionals in the field, MasterCard and Visa, give buyers a quite reasonable (in most circumstances) 45 days to lodge a transaction dispute, and then provide a professional mediation process.

    I can only suspect that “PreyPal” has been very successful at suckering its users into giving them direct-debit access to their bank accounts (not even MasterCard or Visa have such access to your debit account), otherwise how is “PreyPal” going to enforce this policy on merchants when all the “smart” buyers, that eBay has encouraged to crawl out of the woodwork, start “renting” instead of buying?

    “As I noted early this morning when I heard back from PayPal UK, the 6-month protection is for all goods - including physical goods.”—Ina Steiner, ecommercebytes.com

    http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/blog/blog.pl?/comments///1397521213.html

    Methinks it’s time, for those non-eBay online merchants who are using “PreyPal” to receive payments, to start talking to their real bank about a professional merchant account and “MasterPass” or “V.me”; all the rest, well, they will just have to keep their fingers crossed …

    eBay / PayPal / Donahoe: Dead Men Walking ... http://!!!!!!!/11F2eas
  • PayPal: “The [un]safe way to pay and be paid” …

    “How to complain about PayPal in the UK”
    http://www.mukaumedia.co.uk/complain-paypal-uk/
    On this article, when I last looked, 410 negative readers’ comments on “PreyPal”—well worth a read for any small merchant using, or thinking of using, “PreyPal” to accept payments and who has not as yet had a problem with “PreyPal” because, when you do eventually have that problem, it could be a serious business-threatening problem …

    “PayPal: 'Aggressive changes' coming to frozen funds policy”
    http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/21/technology/paypal-frozen-funds/
    Of the 368 readers’ comments currently on this article, see if you can find any that are complimentary of “PreyPal” …

    And, just for fun, a story from Anna Tims of the Guardian/Observer detailing an apparent systems failure at “PreyPal” that undoubtedly affected who knows how many people …
    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/sep/01/paypal-refund-missing-money

    And another story from Anna Tims demonstrating eBay's unconscionable lack of fair transaction mediation and hard-wired bias towards buyers; 324 readers’ comments on this story; see if you can find any that are complimentary of eBay ...
    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/dec/09/seller-beware-listing-ebay

    “eBay Seller Caught in the Middle of PayPal Dispute”—ecommercebytes.com
    http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/pl/2013/9/1378388736.html
    This story is the classic demonstration of just how unprofessional and “clunky” PreyPal is and always will be because “PreyPal” is little more than a credit card merchant account operator (with Wells Fargo Bank); an extra layer of clunky middleman operating in between the seller’s PayPal “pretend bank” merchant account and the buyer’s source of funds.

    And yet another interesting article in the Guardian on the lack of security and protection for sellers receiving payments via eBay’s clunky “PreyPal” (or dealing with Bitcoins); note the many negative readers’ comments about “PreyPal”.
    http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/01/paypal-bitcoin-scam-ebay

    And, while we are at it, an independent view on Bitcoin …
    http://seekingalpha.com/article/2120043-bitcoin-is-sinking-fast-so-are-hopes-of-bitcoin-related-investments?v=1396512737

    “Anyone rushing out to load PayPal onto their phone might want to stop and read The New York Times Haggler column from Sunday. PayPal apparently generates a huge percentage of The Haggler’s traffic.”—Tom Groenfeldt, Forbes …
    “If PayPal isn’t the most reviled online company in the country, which is? The Haggler invites reader suggestions for this unhappy title, but before you write in, consider the sheer quantity of animosity that PayPal inspires. There are anti-PayPal Facebook sites, anti-PayPal YouTube tirades, PayPal-loathing Twitter accounts and more than 550 complaints about PayPal on ConsumerAffairs.com.”
    Yet another classic, ugly, PayPal story …
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/13/your-money/stuck-in-a-dispute-between-paypal-and-itself.html?ref=thehaggler&_r=0
    Clunkity, clunk, clunk, clunk …

    And (yet) another negative “PreyPal” story; an oldie but well worth a read …
    http://nrgfxit.net/2010/12/16/paypal-a-standard-bearer-for-the-class-of-out-of-control-online-service/
    “PayPal (Owned by eBay) is symptomatic of the Achilles heel of online commercial ventures today that leave users in distressed states of helplessness. An innocent trust given in good faith by a user is not reflected back by the service provider, in fact it is abused and taken advantage of.” …
    =
    And another quite typical “PreyPal” horror story, ultimately “fixed” …
    http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700733
    “… I know it is child's play to get creative with a graphics program and manufacture what may apparently look like a utility bill with someone's name on it. Not that I would do such a thing which probably breaks all sorts of anti-terrorism laws and would subject the perpetrator to drone bombings and/or water-boarding. You know things have gotten out of hand when honest people have to lie just to get around the impossible [PayPal] bureaucracy.”

    “How to sue eBay or PayPal [in the U.K.]”
    http://www.thewholesaleforums.co.uk/threads/how-to-sue-ebay-or-paypal.44565/

    The reality is, if you have not yet been burnt by “PreyPal”, then your turn is coming, and being burnt by “PreyPal” can be a serious business-threatening situation. PayPal’s close association with the “wild west” eBay marketplace has destroyed any credibility “PreyPal” may ever have had with many merchants and frankly, I think that anyone that thinks that “PreyPal” now has any long term future outside of the eBay marketplace or as the merchant account provider “of last resort” for non-professional sellers, is uninformed as to just how unprofessional the clunky “PreyPal” operation really is when compared to the retail banks’ MasterCard/Visa operations and the new “MasterPass” and “V.me” offerings …
  • gikgik
    1.1K Posts
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    I have a CCJ against a Brian Routledge, trading as a business on ebay under the name BestPrice4 everything.

    He sold me an item which failed after 5½ months and refuses to honour my rights under SOGA and the Distance Selling Regulations. If the 180 limit had applied I would have been just inside it.

    How exactly do the DSR come into this?
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