Advice for man who has worked on the black for 20 years

pearl123

BigAunty wrote: »

Look, I flagged up an issue with this assumption that the OPs lodger would automatically get pension credit. It is being phased out, as I reported before. It needs more research rather than complacency.I've done some digging. What I haven't found is how the govt plan to deal with hardship resulting from the scrapping of PC for those who get no or partial pensions.

• you'll need to make NI contributions for at least 10 years to qualify for anything (compared to the 1 year you need currently) and this will only entitle you to £41 a week

• you'll need to build 35 years' National Insurance contributions before you qualify for the full state pension (it's currently only 30 years)

• means-tested pension credit... will be stopped
• The new state pension will be worth £4.11 per week / £213.72 per full year (subject to inflation) for each year you paid National Insurance.

http://www.money.co.uk/article/1009534-the-flat-rate-state-pension-faq.htm

I can't see how a government can completely withdraw PC (or a PC type replacement top-up for those who have paid hardly any stamp and will get a tiny state pension and therefore have sub-poverty incomes. I can see why they may have made this change - recent immigrants used to be able to get full state pensions but now need to have paid in at least 10 years stamp.

Interesting, as I did not know that pension credit was being stopped.

pearl123

Found this on government.uk - From the pension bill


"4. The future of means-testing
Those currently in receipt of means-tested Pension Credit will continue to do so after the new system comes into force. Likewise, it is assumed that anyone retiring after April 2016 that doesn’t get a state pension of £144 a week because they lack the 35 years’ worth of national insurance contributions or credits needed will also be entitled to a means-tested top-up (but the exact details of this are unclear from the bill).


Under the bill, Savings Credit will be abolished and for those who would have previously been entitled to Housing and Council Tax benefit, there will be a five year transitional arrangement to allow them to get extra help with these costs. However, the details of this have yet to be explained.
There also appears to be a lack of acknowledgment as to the nature of Pension Credit being a ‘passported benefit’ that entitles the recipients to additional help with housing costs. Any attempt to alter the terms of this additional support that pensioners receive will therefore be of great concern."

So it appears that some financial security will be available to those who don't qualify. It just has not been announced.

seven-day-weekend

If he is working more than 16 hours a week he can't claim JSA. If he is working less than this he can, although he will have to declare anything he earns and it will be taken off his JSA. He may also be able to claim LHA to pay the rent for his room.

He could tell them that he has been supported privately previously. Not exactly a lie!

But of course by far the best course of action is to stop working under the radar and pay his tax and NI like other people do.

SnooksNJ

BigAunty wrote: »

Look, I flagged up an issue with this assumption that the OPs lodger would automatically get pension credit. It is being phased out, as I reported before. It needs more research rather than complacency.I've done some digging. What I haven't found is how the govt plan to deal with hardship resulting from the scrapping of PC for those who get no or partial pensions.

• you'll need to make NI contributions for at least 10 years to qualify for anything (compared to the 1 year you need currently) and this will only entitle you to £41 a week

• you'll need to build 35 years' National Insurance contributions before you qualify for the full state pension (it's currently only 30 years)

• means-tested pension credit... will be stopped
• The new state pension will be worth £4.11 per week / £213.72 per full year (subject to inflation) for each year you paid National Insurance.

http://www.money.co.uk/article/1009534-the-flat-rate-state-pension-faq.htm

I can't see how a government can completely withdraw PC (or a PC type replacement top-up for those who have paid hardly any stamp and will get a tiny state pension and therefore have sub-poverty incomes. I can see why they may have made this change - recent immigrants used to be able to get full state pensions but now need to have paid in at least 10 years stamp.

Yes because those pesky immigrants who have "no recourse to public funds" stamped in their passports are the only ones to play the system.

sarahemmm

ilikewatch wrote: »

I used to work for JCP, and was involved in taking new claims to benefit. Unless things have changed a lot (which I doubt), as long as your friend has some sort of believable sounding reason when asked how they have been supporting themselves then it is very unlikely that they will be asked much more about it. I frequently used to encounter people who stated that they had been supported by family prior to their claim and that was all I needed to know - we didn't ask for any further details or evidence.
In fact I frequently encountered people who stated they had been supporting themselves by stealing or selling drugs, and I very much doubt anything happened to them either...

If your friend does sign on he needs to be very careful not to return to his previous cash in hand work whilst claiming, as that would be a much bigger problem than not declaring a small self employed wage.

Thank you - that is very helpful! The choice seems to be between 'as is' and signing on as unemployed.

sarahemmm

confuseddaughter wrote: »

Why would the Jobcentre ask questions of that nature? For all intents and purposes he could tell them that he was a successful burglar that was never caught and has now decided that he is too old to carry on.
It's none of their business what line of work he was in and what he had been doing - legal or otherwise.

His only problem would be the missing NI stamps for his State Pension. However even that isn't a problem as he would be entitled to claim Pension Credit which would pay more than what his State Pension would have been had he paid the stamps.

An ex boyfriend of mine was a semi pro musician. He worked in pubs and clubs for years and was paid cash after each performance and gave a bogus name to the landlord. He never disclosed those earnings which on average amounted to over £500 a week back 8 years ago, yet that didn't stop him claiming and being awarded JSA.

Also very helpful - thanks, confused!

sarahemmm

BigAunty wrote: »

Also, the problem with him working in the black economy is he may have been eligible for housing benefit during periods of low income, made harder for HB claimants who have periods of free accommodation who then try to claim, as the council may argue that it shows no liability to pay rent, hence no entitlement to HB.

Yikes! Not sure what to do about this one :eek:

sarahemmm

BigAunty wrote: »

• you'll need to make NI contributions for at least 10 years to qualify for anything (compared to the 1 year you need currently) and this will only entitle you to £41 a week

• you'll need to build 35 years' National Insurance contributions before you qualify for the full state pension (it's currently only 30 years)

• means-tested pension credit... will be stopped
• The new state pension will be worth £4.11 per week / £213.72 per full year (subject to inflation) for each year you paid National Insurance.

http://www.money.co.uk/article/1009534-the-flat-rate-state-pension-faq.htm

I can't see how a government can completely withdraw PC (or a PC type replacement top-up for those who have paid hardly any stamp and will get a tiny state pension and therefore have sub-poverty incomes. I can see why they may have made this change - recent immigrants used to be able to get full state pensions but now need to have paid in at least 10 years stamp.

Thanks very much for that, Aunty - it's just what I needed to know!

skivenov

sarahemmm wrote: »

The problem will be proving what he has/hasn't earned - no paperwork of any sort! He isn't registered self-employed, or registered anything. Basically, he has been completely off the radar for years, which is why I'm trying to find out what may/will happen.

And of course, he is just putting off any potentially nasty situation until past the point of no return. Ostrich syndrome.

In fact, he is a lovely guy, who will do anything for anyone, just not sort himself out.

When you say he's been working on the black for the last 20 years, you mean he's been working and living abroad for the last 20 years, has just split up with his missus, and come back to the UK?

sarahemmm

NYM wrote: »

As the OP's lodger is only 50 surely he has a few years to go before he reaches retirement age and could get NI contributions paid if he draws some JSA/benefits until he finds legitimate work ?

If I can persuade him to do something that will provide NI contribs (whether work or benefits), it sounds as if he should be able to get the 10 years of contribs needed. He must have several years already, as he used to have a regular job. It might even be 10 years' worth, but I don't suppose he has kept any paperwork. Will have to get him to contact the pensions dept to see where he stands at present.