distance selling rule query

atemp01

I have a website. I soild a nice lamp with a shade.
The customer emailed to say the shade was marked. I offered a replacement as at that time there was one. She declined and asked me to collect. I organised a collection and asked the customer to repackage the goods as receieved. There were two bxoes binded together and made secure.
the customer used sellotape and not much of it. Only one box was returned and the other lost in the system as there was no label on it. The box that is missing has the shade in it. I have no way of checking to see if the shade was indeed faulty and therefore no way of claiming back of my supplier the cost of the lamp as they will not take back part of a product. The frustration is I am out of pocket for the initial delivery and packaging then the more expensive collection and now the lamp. the courier have no interest in this matter and blame my customer for not making the boxes secure. The customer has asked for a full refund. Where do I stand? I have part of the product returned which is in perfect condition and the customer has told me the shade is damaged or marked and it has now gone missing.

wealdroam

atemp01 wrote: »

I have a website. I soild a nice lamp with a shade.
The customer emailed to say the shade was marked. I offered a replacement as at that time there was one. She declined and asked me to collect. I organised a collection and asked the customer to repackage the goods as receieved. There were two bxoes binded together and made secure.
the customer used sellotape and not much of it. Only one box was returned and the other lost in the system as there was no label on it. The box that is missing has the shade in it. I have no way of checking to see if the shade was indeed faulty and therefore no way of claiming back of my supplier the cost of the lamp as they will not take back part of a product. The frustration is I am out of pocket for the initial delivery and packaging then the more expensive collection and now the lamp. the courier have no interest in this matter and blame my customer for not making the boxes secure. The customer has asked for a full refund. Where do I stand? I have part of the product returned which is in perfect condition and the customer has told me the shade is damaged or marked and it has now gone missing.

I am sorry to have to tell you that the Distance Selling Regulations say that if the consumer cancels the sale then a full refund of all monies paid must be made whether the goods are returned or not.

Here is an extract from page 25 of the OFT's guide to the DSRs:

Refunds (Regulation 14)

When do I have to refund a consumer’s money if they cancel an order?
3.46As soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and in any case within 30 days at the latest. You must refund the consumer’s money even if you have not yet collected the goods or had them returned to you by the consumer. You cannot insist on the goods being received by you before you make a refund. See also paragraph 3.64.

Can I withhold a refund if a consumer fails to take reasonable care of the goods?
3.47 No. Other than for the exceptions at paragraph 3.38 the DSRs give consumers an unconditional right to cancel a contract and legally oblige you to refund all sums due in relation to the contract as soon as possible after the consumer cancels, and within a maximum of 30 days. The DSRs do, however, give suppliers a right of action against consumers for breach of the statutory duty to take reasonable care.

What specifically do I have to refund to the consumer if they cancel?
3.48 The DSRs require you to refund any money paid by or on behalf of the consumer in relation to the contract to the person who made the payment. This means the full price of the goods, or deposit or pre-payment made, including the cost of delivery. The essence of distance selling is that consumers buy from home and receive goods at home. In these circumstances, almost every case of home shopping will involve delivery of the goods ordered and so delivery forms an essential part of the contract.

Seems a bit unfair doesn't it?

No help in this instance, but the law is due to change later this year.

bris

In practice it doesn't work like that, personally I would deduct the cost of the shade and tell the customer to go whistle and yes I am a retailer.

You can countersue for the customer failing to take reasonable care of the goods if it comes to it.

You wont be alone, I don't know any company that refunds on missing parcels, even the big ones.

wealdroam

bris wrote: »

You can countersue for the customer failing to take reasonable care of the goods if it comes to it.

Remember that the seller arranged and paid for the courier.

The courier seems to indicate, although it is not too clear, that both boxes were collected.

This is an issue that the courier and the seller need to resolve between them.

InsideInsurance

Did the customer return the item under the Distance Selling Regulations or did they reject the order under the Sales of Goods Act due to the item being faulty?

Why is no claim being made against the courier company for the lost/ damaged parcel? Ultimately they accepted the collection of it so must have considered it reasonable attached to each other and through their misshandling have lost half of it.

atemp01

InsideInsurance wrote: »

Did the customer return the item under the Distance Selling Regulations or did they reject the order under the Sales of Goods Act due to the item being faulty?

Why is no claim being made against the courier company for the lost/ damaged parcel? Ultimately they accepted the collection of it so must have considered it reasonable attached to each other and through their misshandling have lost half of it.

The problem with claiming from the courier is that they do not accept a claim for two boxes being binded and sent as one where one of them goes missing especially if there is only one label for the two boxes. I have refunded the customer in full but wanted clarification on this as if it was a larger more expensive item it could affect the business cashflow.


The customer is claiming that the lamp shade was marked but the lamp itself was fine. I offered a replacement shade which was refused. The customer did start quoting Distance Selling not sale of goods act.

bris

wealdroam wrote: »

Remember that the seller arranged and paid for the courier.

The courier seems to indicate, although it is not too clear, that both boxes were collected.

This is an issue that the courier and the seller need to resolve between them.

I disagree the buyer was negligent in the packaging causing it to fall off and go missing, this is failing to take reasonable care of the goods.

For the OP you need to learn about DSR and SOGA and the differences between them.

In this case you shouldn't have collected the item, for SOGA fault you are entitled to get them to send it back to you to verify the fault before refunding, if faulty then pay them back the return costs.

With DSR you can stipulate in your durable info that the buyer is responsible for return costs, although you must pay back the original purchase price including delivery. Read up on what durable info you need to give them.

In this case the customer could reject the goods under DSR (within 7 working days) or SOGA but you should have made it clear to the customer which one they wanted to use, and dealt with it appropriately.

InsideInsurance

atemp01 wrote: »

The problem with claiming from the courier is that they do not accept a claim for two boxes being binded and sent as one where one of them goes missing especially if there is only one label for the two boxes. I have refunded the customer in full but wanted clarification on this as if it was a larger more expensive item it could affect the business cashflow.

Where in their T&Cs is this stated? Why do they collect boxes in this state if they say that its unacceptable?


The DSR currently requires you to refund in full as soon as is reasonably possible, though there is word of this being changed in the future. That doesnt mean you cannot pursue them afterwards if they havent taken due care.

Obv if there is something in the terms about sticking boxes together, labeling both etc you will have to consider both the method you are sending things out and in particular your instructions of how they are returned as not everyone is going to have/ use heavy duty tape etc.

OlliesDad

bris wrote: »

I disagree the buyer was negligent in the packaging causing it to fall off and go missing, this is failing to take reasonable care of the goods.

I disagree with this statement. If the items were not appropriately attached then the couriers should not have accepted it in that condition. By the couriers accepting it, the responsibility passes to them to return it safely.

Auntie-Dolly

You must refund the customer. Source a new shade and try to recoup any loss by reselling the item. You can't start quibbling with customers. Don't look at one sale as profitable or not - look at the bigger picture and your levels of customer service.

bod1467

bris wrote: »

I disagree the buyer was negligent in the packaging causing it to fall off and go missing, this is failing to take reasonable care of the goods.

OlliesDad wrote: »

I disagree with this statement. If the items were not appropriately attached then the couriers should not have accepted it in that condition. By the couriers accepting it, the responsibility passes to them to return it safely.

If you insert the missing punctuation you'll find that you two agree.

bris wrote: »

I disagree. The buyer was negligent in the packaging causing it to fall off and go missing; this is failing to take reasonable care of the goods.