Should we tax foreign buyers on property deliberately left empty?

cepheus

The Chinese property market has been driven even more than London by this behaviour of buying into the bubble and leaving the properties empty. Did you see Robert Peston's programme on China?

CLAPTON

TickersPlaysPop wrote: »

This thread started about foreign buyers in London.... Something I have been posting about here over last 2 weeks.

I hope the people that disagreed with my view will take note of the latest figures in the publication cited at the beginning of this thread.

When the Chinese economic bubble bursts, and the world faces up to the fraud and fake money they are creating, there will be massive implications if they have significant amounts of money in our property market.... It's not about the number of properties, it's the huge amount of money in the London house market owned by Russians and Chinese. China has been riding on credit not success and wealth creation, china is now over 200 debt to GDP, and that might be an underestimation.

If a significant number of them bail when things get tough for them, our housing market will drop. I am hoping this will be limited Central London and ripple out only to Home Counties.... but we do need a correction in future to balance out the current bubble?

I am unconvinced that the market in £20 million pound properties affects the rest of the UK to any great degree.

The ripple effect seems somewhat dubious to say the least.

If a load of foreign non resident investors lose a lot of corruptly obtained money is probably a relatively small matter.

Of far more interest is the low level of property building and the increasing population that needs housing.

If indeed money stops pouring into London to hgh high priced property then there may be some macroeconomic effects: probably a drop in sterling value which will be all to the good.

cepheus

Vaguely related considering current events

the prime minister is hamstrung by his own mercantilist ideology. This was revealed in the cabinet papers, photographed by the Guardian, cautioning against sanctions targeting Russia which might hurt the City of London.

According to Savills estate agency, 4 per cent of buyers in ‘prime central’ areas of London, such as Chelsea and Westminster, are Russian, spending an average of £6.3m. Russian wealth has permeated the upper reaches of society in Britain more completely than in any other Western country, according to the Economist.
Despite events in Ukraine, one suspects that many conservatives will be far more concerned about their beloved City than about the national sovereignty of a faraway foreign country. As was demonstrated during the Arab Spring when Cameron travelled the Middle East hawking British arms to autocrats, commerce will come before principle even for many of the so-called ‘modernisers’.

CLAPTON

cepheus wrote: »

Vaguely related considering current events

presumably the quote is from an 'independent' source without any particular affiliation or bias?

presumably they go on to give a 'solution' ... send troops to Ukraine? bomb Moscow? or embrace the 'new' USSR world order for the good of the working classes?

ruggedtoast

CLAPTON wrote: »

Indeed so, homelessness can be defined in many ways, but outside the mentally ill and other special cases the levels of homelessness in the UK are very low

it is true however, that sometimes an 16 year old girl has to share a bedroom with their younger sister

I used to be involved with a homeless charity. The homeless rates in the UK are not low.

I like also how you blithely disregard homeless people who are mentally ill as if they somehow dont matter. The fact that the most vulnerable and unwell people in the country are the most likely to be sleeping rough on the streets is national disgrace, not something to be pooh poohed by people who have never experienced that themselves.

You also seem to be woefully misunderstanding the meaning of 'home'. People surviving hand to mouth in hostels (often different ones every other night), sleeping on sofas, or in bed and breakfasts (if they are lucky) do not have a home.

CLAPTON

ruggedtoast wrote: »

I used to be involved with a homeless charity. The homeless rates in the UK are not low.

I like also how you blithely disregard homeless people who are mentally ill as if they somehow dont matter. The fact that the most vulnerable and unwell people in the country are the most likely to be sleeping rough on the streets is national disgrace, not something to be pooh poohed by people who have never experienced that themselves.

You also seem to be woefully misunderstanding the meaning of 'home'. People surviving hand to mouth in hostels (often different ones every other night), sleeping on sofas, or in bed and breakfasts (if they are lucky) do not have a home.

if you have first hand knowledge of homelessness then please share your greater knowledge.

I do not disregard the problem of the mentally ill but I don't think that £20m properties in Central London are relevant to their needs. Their problems are more complex than that banning foreigners buying central London investment properties.

If you have figures about the number of sofa surfers, hostel dwellers and B&Bs and how long on average that situation lasts them please add the figures.

My understanding (which you are welcome to provide real information) is that in most cases these situation are temporary and the people move on to more permanent homes quite quickly.
Sofa surfers (I know quite a few) are often young people moving to a new city and new job who are basically staying with friends while they look for a permanent flat.

Graham_Devon

Todays Rightmove HPI release has a headline of: London ripple pushes all southern regions to new price records

Miles Shipside, Rightmove director and housing market analyst comments:
“Records are tumbling, with a new national asking price record being set for the second consecutive month. London’s asking prices are at their highest ever level, and the strong ripple effect from the capital has also caused a new wave of record prices for property coming to market in the South East, the South West and East Anglia.”

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/april-2014-2

chucky

Graham_Devon wrote: »

Todays Rightmove HPI release has a headline of: London ripple pushes all southern regions to new price records


http://www.rightmove.co.uk/news/house-price-index/april-2014-2

London is a very big place.

Don't be narrow minded enough that price increases are just because of foreign buyers,

wotsthat

Graham_Devon wrote: »

What about say a 40% tax on the profits at sale?

Good idea - we could call it capital gains tax or something like that.

People invest in housing because there's a shortage of housing so there's a reasonable chance it'll hold it's value. We need more houses for people to live in and more houses would make property less attractive as an investment. Any proposal to deal with a shortage of housing by taxing investors is jealousy pure and simple. It won't deal with the root cause.

More houses would kill two birds with one stone.

At least the OP is clear in his thread title - no problem with White British people leaving properties empty. What next? A tax on people wearing loud shirts during the hours of darkness or those in possession of an offensive wife?

antrobus

wotsthat wrote: »

Good idea - we could call it capital gains tax or something like that.....

Of course we'd need to bring in some special rules to catch all those 'foreign buyers' in the CGT net. But wait, it looks like Gideon has already though of it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25219129

wotsthat wrote: »

...At least the OP is clear in his thread title - no problem with White British people leaving properties empty. What next? A tax on people wearing loud shirts during the hours of darkness or those in possession of an offensive wife?

What?! You're accusing cepheus of being some kind of zenophobic nationalist? He'll be after you. You have been warned.:)