Can you reduce the length of the lease?

essentials2x7w

jayship wrote: »

It may not be a mistake. It looks like all leaseholders decided to jointly buy the freehold from the land owner. This means that the land is collectively owned. Each owner has a 999 years lease. Basically having such a long lease is typically classified as freehold technically.


In order to do this all flat owners would have had to agree to the purchase and hold the land in joint custody via a company.

Thanks for your input. This would make sense actually! When I found details online of (what I believe to be!) the management company, there was a pie chart showing the majority free holder of 50%ish and then a good 20-25 individuals all owning 2%.

I'm wondering if someone else in the building owns the 999 lease on the flat i'm looking to purchase and and then has sub-let a shorter lease to new owners? I don't know if that's possible i'm just thinking aloud really - if it is truly only a 99 year lease? Considering the EA told us that the 99 year started in 2003 whereas the longer lease was 02'

da_rule

Have you managed to find the Freehold title for the flat/block of flats? It may list the current owner of the flat you want to buy as a freehold owner.

You can't sublet a lease in the way you are suggesting. The current occupants could be tenants (in that they rent from the leaseholder), but you would probably know this.

Also, like you, I have seen many 999 year leases, it makes the leases much easier to sell. When were these flats built?

essentials2x7w

da_rule wrote: »

Have you managed to find the Freehold title for the flat/block of flats? It may list the current owner of the flat you want to buy as a freehold owner.

You can't sublet a lease in the way you are suggesting. The current occupants could be tenants (in that they rent from the leaseholder), but you would probably know this.

Also, like you, I have seen many 999 year leases, it makes the leases much easier to sell. When were these flats built?

Ooh sorry not quite sure what you mean.. (bit slow here ) do you mean finding the Freehold title from land reg? If so, yes I have that. I've had a quick look through it and no i'm pretty sure they're a leaseholder. The document isn't exactly in lay person terminology lol but i'm picking up some of it!

Can't sublet, great! That's good to know thankyou. The current occupants are the owners.

Flats are in a grade II listed building, which I believe was built in 1921. Unsure of the exact dates it was converted but from what I can gather.. Purchased for conversion in 1995 and all sold between 2003-2005.

da_rule

That explains the date then, when they were sold off as flats they would have been registered individually as leasehold titles. And the registration date would have been around the time the flat was sold for the first time.

By freehold title, I don't mean the leasehold title. If you imagine that the flat is leasehold, this lease is granted by a freeholder. The freeholder owns the land as a whole. There are two titles, one leasehold title for your flat and one freehold title for the land as a whole.

Also, ask the seller if they own any of the freehold title, and if so are they selling that too.

essentials2x7w

da_rule wrote: »

That explains the date then, when they were sold off as flats they would have been registered individually as leasehold titles. And the registration date would have been around the time the flat was sold for the first time.

By freehold title, I don't mean the leasehold title. If you imagine that the flat is leasehold, this lease is granted by a freeholder. The freeholder owns the land as a whole. There are two titles, one leasehold title for your flat and one freehold title for the land as a whole.

Also, ask the seller if they own any of the freehold title, and if so are they selling that too.

Got cha, thanks Ok i'll ask the EA to ask the sellers about that on Monday. I thought if they did that it would of just been included in the purchase price. Can a share of the FH be expensive to buy?

da_rule

essentials2x7w wrote: »

Got cha, thanks Ok i'll ask the EA to ask the sellers about that on Monday. I thought if they did that it would of just been included in the purchase price. Can a share of the FH be expensive to buy?

Unfortunately as with most things it depends. Specifically on things like, the percentage owned, the value of the freehold estate etc.

If they do own any of the freehold it is unlikely they would want to retain it, but it's always worth checking.

It would also be worth checking whether there is ground rent and how much it is, this is usually a 'pepper corn' (which is a legal term meaning very little/minimal). Also, if there is then check when the amount is up for renewal.

And also check whether there is a management company and how much this costs per month/year.

essentials2x7w

da_rule wrote: »

Unfortunately as with most things it depends. Specifically on things like, the percentage owned, the value of the freehold estate etc.

If they do own any of the freehold it is unlikely they would want to retain it, but it's always worth checking.

It would also be worth checking whether there is ground rent and how much it is, this is usually a 'pepper corn' (which is a legal term meaning very little/minimal). Also, if there is then check when the amount is up for renewal.

And also check whether there is a management company and how much this costs per month/year.

Right ok, have made a note and have added the freehold questions to my to-ask list!

There is a ground rent, it's not peppercorn, and I have requested all that info in writing aswell as recent increases & increases in the future. Have also asked about the management company and whether or not there's a sinking fund etc.

EA forgot to mention it was Grade II listed and had to find out for myself so I have recently bombarded him with questions which he didn't seem too happy about and I have a load more now aswell. I'm a FTB and I'd rather know all the facts (or as much as poss) before potentially wasting money on legal fees. So the advice i'm receiving here i'm very grateful for!

da_rule

I think saying the EA forgot to mention it might be being a bit generous

Land_Registry

You could apply to us for an official copy of the lease itself using our form OC2


To complete the form you need

• details of the land or property you are interested in
• the title number (from the register)
• your own details into the applicant fields
• description and date of the document

Please send the form with a cheque for £7 to our Wales office