Where to go from here? Reclaiming Bank Charges

mistergolo

Hi Everyone -

I recently contacted my bank Natwest - to ask for Bank Charges to be re paid - what I sent:

NB - this is the meaty part - the rest was just the standard MSE template and the charges I feel are unfair.

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

These charges where completely unfair and in many cases - as shown below pushed be over my £500 overdraft limit - thus providing a snowballing effect - causing debt issues for the next month.


Attached are two pictures that show Natwest's reply - any advice gratefully received - i'm only a youngun!

As a newbie I cant add links to posts so please copy and paste

Page 1
i.imgur.com/C7sEJeG.jpg
Page 2
i.imgur.com/R6fMCsN.jpg

dunstonh

The complaint was destined for failure as soon as you used that template letter. Mainly as it focuses on them being unfair (which they are not).

mistergolo

Thanks for the feedback Dunstonh - most appreciated.

Does that not beg the question that MSE shouldn't have them those templates if they are not fit for purpose?

-taff

They were fit for purpose until 5 years ago. It begs the question why you aren't reading the how to properly because it does say for those in financial hardship currently.

Bravestar

mistergolo wrote: »

Hi Everyone -

I recently contacted my bank Natwest - to ask for Bank Charges to be re paid - what I sent:

NB - this is the meaty part - the rest was just the standard MSE template and the charges I feel are unfair.

I believe the fact that I have been incurring bank charges goes contrary to the aims of the Lending Code (Section 9) and Banking Conduct of Business Sourcebook (section 5.1.4 ‘in particular, a firm should deal fairly with a banking customer whom it has reason to believe is in financial difficulty’). My personal situation has been affected by the charges leaving me in financial hardship and I am writing to request that you take the following grounds into consideration:

These charges where completely unfair and in many cases - as shown below pushed be over my £500 overdraft limit - thus providing a snowballing effect - causing debt issues for the next month.


Attached are two pictures that show Natwest's reply - any advice gratefully received - i'm only a youngun!

As a newbie I cant add links to posts so please copy and paste

Page 1
i.imgur.com/C7sEJeG.jpg
Page 2
i.imgur.com/R6fMCsN.jpg

mistergolo wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback Dunstonh - most appreciated.

Does that not beg the question that MSE shouldn't have them those templates if they are not fit for purpose?

...Since the result of the November 2009 Supreme Court ruling it has been more difficult, but some payouts are still possible for those in financial hardship...

There's no guarantee of winning. Yet for some, primarily those in hardship, there's still a risk-free, cost-free process which could see money coming back. ...

The Ombudsman has said it is willing to look at specific types of bank charge reclaims (see below), primarily involving severe hardship and if you can go this way, it's a far safer option. It doesn't mean you'll win, but the risk of losing is less....

...to try to give some ideas as to what would count as hardship.



You're likely to have to meet several of these criteria to be successful, not just one, and you'll need to give the bank full details about how you've been affected.

• Can't pay for necessities. You're struggling to meet basic necessities, including your mortgage, council tax, food and utility bills.
• Can't pay debts. You're struggling to make loan and credit card repayments.
• Income eaten by charges. Your income's being eaten up by repaying charges (for example, you're being asked to pay £50 of charges from a £100 weekly benefit income).
  
  Note: this doesn't specifically cover the deduction of bank charges from your benefits under the Social Security Administration Act 1992 - this is an urban myth.
• Payments regularly returned. Your payments regularly get returned unpaid as you don't have enough money in your account.
• Substantial drop in income. For example, you've lost your job, started a lower paid job, needed to take parental or carers' leave, your partner has died, you've separated from your partner, you've started full time education or you/your partner has been in, or gone to, prison.
• Disability or illness. You've needed to increase spending on something due to a disability or serious illness.
• Going bankrupt or into debt management. You're going bankrupt, getting an IVA or debt relief order or are in a debt management plan.
• Continually living off credit. You're living off credit and regularly need to increase your credit limit.
• Regular credit card cash withdrawals. You are using regular cash withdrawals from credit cards to make ends meet
• Frequently over your overdraft limit. You frequently go over your overdraft limit. In earlier incarnations of hardship rules this was explained as having more than £500 of charges a year – so that seems a good benchmark.
• Bank charges have hurt your situation. The charges have contributed to making your financial hardship situation materially worse.

...

Feel free to write the letter to your bank yourself, though below we have sample letters for different circumstances that can be used as a base....

...

The Ombudsman is very keen that people explain why they're in hardship rather than use legal jargon. While this is less important in the letter to the bank, it's good to start here and explain why it's been such an issue. It's to be hoped the banks will be responsible and make their decision based on the Ombudsman's guidance.
So tell your story naturally (and truthfully) and if you fulfil the criteria of hardship do make sure you include points that show it. Here's a short, made up, example...

I lost my job as an electrician in July 2005, and as my wife was ill in hospital at the time things were very tough. Soon we were unable to pay the bills and moved into our overdraft and beyond it. We then started to be hit by charges of £35 a time, which were completely unaffordable. We were trapped, and unable to pay them back.

Tell them about your circumstances, and add any evidence from the time you were in hardship to speed the process up. This could include bank/credit card statements, a redundancy letter, a P45, confirmation of a special payment plan, a letter from a debt advisory service or anything else.

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/bank-charges

And now to the letter itself:

You should try and include examples which demonstrate as many of the following points as are relevant.


· Can’t pay for necessities. You’re struggling to meet basic necessities eg mortgage, council tax, food, utility bills - No mention
· Can’t pay debts. You’re struggling to make loan and credit card repayments - No mention
· Income eaten by charges. Your income’s being eaten up by repaying charges (eg you’re being asked to pay £50 of charges from a £100 weekly benefit income) - No mention
· Payments regularly returned. Your payments regularly get returned unpaid as you’ve not enough money in your account - No mention
· Substantial drop in income. For example, you’ve lost your job, started a lower paid job, needed to take parental or carers leave, your partner has died, you’ve separated from your partner, you’ve started full time education or you/your partner has been/gone to prison - No mention
· Disability or illness. You’ve needed to increase spending on something due to a disability or serious illness - No mention
· Going bankrupt or into debt management. You’re going bankrupt, getting an IVA or Debt Relief Order or are in a debt management plan - No mention
· Living off credit. You’re living off credit and regularly need to increase your credit limit - No mention
· Regular credit card cash withdrawals. You are using regular cash withdrawals from credit cards to make ends meet - No mention
· Frequently over overdraft limit. You frequently go over your overdraft limit. In earlier incarnations of hardship rules this was explained as having more than £500 of charges a year – so that seems a good benchmark - No mention
Bank charges have hurt your situation. The charges have contributed to making your financial hardship situation materially worse - No mention
· The charges are disproportionate. If you unintentionally slipped over your limit by a few pounds and the charge is a lot higher than the ‘offence’ eg you go £1 over but charged £35. - No mention
You are / were stuck in a cycle of charges you cannot break out off. If you’ve had charges on charges, and were stuck in a trap of not being able to clear them before new daily or monthly fees are added on top. - Brief mention.

So with a score of just 1/13 if we are generous, did you really think you had any chance of success?

And thats before we consider the fact you spoilt the whole attempt by alleging the charges to be unfair. :doh:

James_Robertson

Bank charges are not fair,
the banks managed to get a fancy legal argument to stop the OFT in its tracks, but it dont mean they are no regarded as fair!!

dunstonh

Bank charges are not fair,

Until the courts say otherwise, they are.

the banks managed to get a fancy legal argument to stop the OFT in its tracks, but it dont mean they are no regarded as fair!!

And the OFT and no other consumer body has found a way to get them classed as unfair.

antrobus

dunstonh wrote: »

Until the courts say otherwise, they are.....And the OFT and no other consumer body has found a way to get them classed as unfair.

What the Supreme Court decided in 2009, wasn't so much that unauthorised overdraft charges were 'fair', more that there was no requirement for them to be fair in the first place. It's just the agreed price for the service offered.

[Deleted User]

James_Robertson wrote: »

Bank charges are not fair

This is a moot point, for the purposes of trying to get a refund then it is simply unwise to make any statement at all regarding fairness.

I'd certainly agree that they are expensive.