Appealing against "own space" tickets

halibut2209

The_Deep wrote: »

Halibut, as I have said before, none of my properties is patrolled by a PPC. I cannot therefore win myself a pcn for parking in my own space.

My apologies. That wasn't clear.

The_Deep

kirkbyinfurnesslad wrote: »

I am sorry but this is a poor idea. People don't want hassle. Court claims are no fun for people

Oh dear, argumentum ad populum, and from a board eminence gris.

I am sure that many landlords, and perhaps a few tenants, once they are aware of the issues , would be up for a fight.

da_rule

The_Deep wrote: »

da rule, how would parking in someone else's space solve the problem of people being ticketed for parking in their own space?

Because your argument would surely be that as a guest of the owner of the space, you are accountable to the owner only, not to a PPC. This would therefore also set the precedent (or not seeing as it would only be at County Court level) that a PPC cannot act on a privately owned space against the owners wishes.

jhardesty

Watching this thread closely as the debt recovery team recently mailed me demanding £160.

No intentions of paying as I was parked in my own space

Guys_Dad

The_Deep wrote: »

Oh dear, argumentum ad populum, and from a board eminence gris.

I am sure that many landlords, and perhaps a few tenants, once they are aware of the issues , would be up for a fight.

Sensible leaseholders do as you did and not let the parasites in at all. Sometimes, the management company is not open to change of course.

I agree that to win any case based on ownership of space and sheer common sense is much more satisfying. However, getting the PPC to lose on any grounds, knowing that it will have cost them money in either POPLA or court fees is in itself a satisfying victory and if we have a current winning strategy at POPLA on contract/GPEOL, then that is good enough for the vast majority of OPs.

The_Deep

da_rule wrote: »

Because your argument would surely be that as a guest of the owner of the space, you are accountable to the owner only, not to a PPC. This would therefore also set the precedent (or not seeing as it would only be at County Court level) that a PPC cannot act on a privately owned space against the owners wishes.

Indeed, I am accountable to the owner, but no-one is accountable to me.

If I park in my OWN SPACE, I am accountable to no-one, but the head leaseholder, the Residents' Association, the Managing Agents and the PPC are all accountable to me. A huge difference.

da_rule

Perhaps I've missed the point of what you're trying to achieve. Are you not trying to get a court to rule that, where a space is privately owned, a PPC cannot enforce its 'policy' on anyone parked in that space, unless they have the agreement of the owner?

kirkbyinfurnesslad_2

The Deep, the issue you have is that you are basically playing with other peoples money if you wish them to go down this route.
I can see what you are trying to achieve, but a ruling in the county court really isnt worth that much.

The_Deep

In a nutshell. Me, my family, contractors working for me, my tenants and their families.

da_rule

So by the same extension, your/your tenants guests. So I got g back to my original point, if you are a guest of someone who owns a space (and has not agreed to a PPC managing their space) then you can make exactly the same argument as you could if you owned the space. The only difference is that you would have to ask the person who you were visiting to give a statement stating that you parked in the bay with their permission and get them to produce a copy of their lease/title document. The end decision would be the same; that the owner of the space has the authority, under basic land law principles, to decide who uses their land (parking space), unless there is a contract with a PPC that sets out otherwise.

I can't see why you're hanging so much on it being your space, the principle you are trying to raise is that the owner of a space has the ultimate say on who uses that space and who enforces any parking policy related to that space. Therefore a guest/agent of the owner can rely on exactly the same principle as the owner (where there is no agreement to the contrary).