Appealing against "own space" tickets

The_Deep

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]As many of you will know, I am a small landlord. I rent our properties on ASTs to people whom, for whatever reason, do not want to buy a property to live in. I do not rent out to riff raff, the unemployed ,HB recipients, and those who do not pass stringent credit checks. My tenants are mainly higher rate taxpayers, and well aware of their consumer rights. They do not want to have to deal with the opportunist scum who prey on blocks of flats..[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]One of their rights is to the quiet enjoyment of their property, if they do not get it, if they have noisy neighbours, the lift does not work,the washing machine fails, if the bins are not cleared, they come tome. I sort it out, that is my job. I am required by law to abide by the terms of the rental agreement. I should not however have to deal with private parking companies. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I am sure that I am no different from hundreds of thousands of other private landlords. Therefore, in the vast majority of cases, where head-leaseholders and their managing agents allow predatory private parking companies on to their land they are acting in a manner which is contrary to the best interests of under leaseholders and their tenants, and probably contrary to housing regulations.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]I am therefore appealing to people on here to stop advising advising landlords and tenants to engage with these PPCs and take parking tickets issued by PPCs to Popla. This is not a matter for Popla,this is a matter for the managing agent, a LA Housing Authority or a Court. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Parking on one's own land is not the same as parking at the local shopping centre, one does nor need to seek permission, to display a permit.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]If the Landlord/management company wishes to deter those with two cars and one space from parking in spaces belonging to others, or in visitors or disabled spaces, or access roads, well and good, but people properly parking in their own spaces is of no concern to PPCs, or POPLA.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]These people are not parking on private land belonging to others, they are parking in their own land.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So please, let us have less advice on how to get off at Popla on a totally irrelevant point of Contact Law. Let's tell it as it is; ignore hese invoices, or bat them back to the managing agent. Owners/tenants should not be advised to spend their time and money fighting these charges at Popla unless they have parked inappropriately. [/FONT]

Roger Davey has shown us the way, and cost UKPC thousands so lets all follow his example and strike a blow for all tenants and landlords, stop advising people to appeal to POPLA.

Hot_Bring

And yet again I will highlight that a majority of people just want the situation dealt with in the easiest way possible.

While you are right that a lease / freehold will trump a PPC ticket every time, there is always that small chance of a weird ruling from a judge. Are you going to indemnify anyone who loses at court following your advice ?

So by all means point out the facts and suggest the possibility of taking the route you mention BUT make sure to highlight the dangers as well. That way people can make their own minds up. You want to fight PPCs in these circumstances that's fine - but don't use other people to fight that battle.

Guys_Dad

Hot_Bring wrote: »

And yet again I will highlight that a majority of people just want the situation dealt with in the easiest way possible.

While you are right that a lease / freehold will trump a PPC ticket every time, there is always that small chance of a weird ruling from a judge. Are you going to indemnify anyone who loses at court following your advice ?

So by all means point out the facts and suggest the possibility of taking the route you mention BUT make sure to highlight the dangers as well. That way people can make their own minds up. You want to fight PPCs in these circumstances that's fine - but don't use other people to fight that battle.

Well said. Not everyone wants to go to court and a win at POPLA on ANY grounds is a win.

The_Deep

Hot_Bring wrote: »

And yet again I will highlight that a majority of people just want the situation dealt with in the easiest way possible.

Most people who overstay, do not pay, park inappropriately leave the site,have brought these problerms upon themselves, etc., want a quick fix, I am not so sure that landlords and tenants legitimately parked in their own space are of the same mind

.ile you are right that a lease / freehold will trump a PPC ticket every time, ... make sure to highlight the dangers as well

What dangers? Can you quote chapter and verse of CCJs against a landlord or tenant losing to a PPC when in their own space where there are no covenants requiring the occupant to display a permit, and the case has been properly defended?

but don't use other people to fight that battle.

I have to try to persuade others, none of my flats is mismanaged by a PPC.

All that I am asking is that people on here, in the very small number of cases where a PPC tickets an owner or tenant inappropriately, do not fall all over themselves to offer Popla advice.

For reasons which I have expounded frequently, this is not a matter for Popla. I very much doubt if Mr Davey bothered with Popla.

The_Deep

Guys_Dad wrote: »

Well said. Not everyone wants to go to court and a win at POPLA on ANY grounds is a win.

We are not talking about everyone GD, just a very small number of property owners who have been far more insulted by a PPC than the usual P&D ticket dodger.

A win on GPOL for parking in one's one space is not a win, it is a cop out.

Browntoa

Think the argument is why any decent landland, managing company etc would employ a PPC or not write a clause that forces the PPC to automatically waive ones issued to residents

There are other methods for controlling residents parking , just that most landlords want the cheap option and not the expense of gates or bollards

The_Deep

Browntoa, I own two flats in a block where a number of the tenants are, how shall I say this, not overflowing with community spirit.

They park in visitors' bays for months on end, they park in my tenants' spaces, they park in disabled bays. this despite a coded barrier.

The committee of the RA want to call in a PPC and would have already done so had I not so vehemently opposed it. I spent half the year in Spain and do not need extra harassment such as this would engender.

The only way to avoid such problems is to thoroughly vet one's tenants and avoid letting to riff raff. Unfortunately, as most of the other owners are absentee landlords or property companies, this does not happen.

I can well understand why MAs take on these companies, a shiny suited salesman drives up in an expensive German motorcar, promises them the earth and they sign on.

Sometimes I think let the !!!!!!!s in, but then I think, why should my RAF pilot tenant and his Chartered Accountant wife, have to put up with this rubbish.

What on earth is wrong with the word !!!!!!!, nanny filter in overdrive.

halibut2209

Why not park in one of the spots yourself, get a ticket, and then do as you suggest yourself rather than risk other people's time and money when there is a tried and tested successful method already

Guys_Dad

halibut2209 wrote: »

Why not park in one of the spots yourself, get a ticket, and then do as you suggest yourself rather than risk other people's time and money when there is a tried and tested successful method already

Without any malice intended, this is actually the way to get actual valid information and experience.

I am 100% behind The Deep's aims, but I am reluctant to put the theory to the test on other people's money. Now if someone was up for it, then that's a different scenario.

The_Deep

Halibut, you have totally missed my point.

I do not own a space in a car park managed by a PPC. How therefore can I do as you suggest. Did you actually read my post?

Guy's Dad, thanks, but I would then have ceded the moral high-ground.

da_rule

The_Deep wrote: »

Halibut, you have totally missed my point.

I do not own a space in a car park managed by a PPC. How therefore can I do as you suggest. Did you actually read my post?

Guy's Dad, thanks, but I would then have ceded the moral high-ground.

I'm sure we could find someone who owns a space you could visit and accidentally get a PCN. You could then have your day in court. I'm sure the person you visit would happily supply you with a copy of their lease/title documents and confirmation that you were their guest.

I cannot see how advising people not to use GPEOL at POPLA would be helpful if their desire is just to get the ticket cancelled. Obviously if they're up for a fight then so be it.