Serious question, benefit cuts.

missapril75

zagfles wrote: »

The mean tends to be skewed by a few very high paid jobs, so the median is generally thought of as a more useful figure.

That's true.
But I've even seen the median figure at a similar rate.

danielanthony

zagfles wrote: »

Depends what you mean by average. Mean for all jobs is about £26k, median is about £21k.

For full-time jobs only, mean is about £33k and median is £26k.

The mean tends to be skewed by a few very high paid jobs, so the median is generally thought of as a more useful figure.

This excludes all the thousands of self employed tradespeople and one man band companies who dodge PAYE and these statistics. Looking at the number of smart cars on the roads and £500k+ houses, I have great difficulty believing that half the workforce earns less than £26k.

2gorgeousgirls

I work in an office with 18 other people, all of whom are earning under £26,000.

The two top staff in the office earn approx £24,000 with the rest of the staff on £22,000 or under.

I find it perfectly believable that half the population are earning under £26,000.

StormyWeather_2

danielanthony wrote: »

This excludes all the thousands of self employed tradespeople and one man band companies who dodge PAYE and these statistics. Looking at the number of smart cars on the roads and £500k+ houses, I have great difficulty believing that half the workforce earns less than £26k.

Look on some of job sites at the salaries and hourly rates. The number of standard office jobs paying less outweighs the number of higher salary jobs. Hourly paid shop work/cleaning/catering often pays near NMW, even at £7.50 an hour that's still only £15k a year for someone working 40 hrs a week, 50 weeks of the year.

BigAunty

Changes that I am aware about over the last few years include

- introduction of lower shared accommodation rate of HB for the under 35s
- scrapping of the £15 a week a HB claimant could receive if they found accommodation cheaper than their maximum LHA rate
- introduction of maximum LHA rate caps and removal of 5 bedroom rate.
- significant reduction in EMA entitlement for students
- big changes in tax credits such as rise in the amount of hours 2 parents must work to qualify from 16 to 24 hours a week
- ESA (contribution) having a 1 year entitlement if the household has a certain level of income
- introduction in England of local council tax reduction schemes which means many councils expect certain groups of claimants to pay council tax that previously received 100% exemptions.
- freezing of benefit rates
- scrapping of child benefit above a certain threshold
- introduction of time limits to some claimants of Support for Mortgage Interest with the likelihood that this will be extended to more claimants, the amount of mortgage covered will reduce by 100% and that claimants must wait a lot longer before they can submit their initial claim.

And that's before the general benefit cap that was introduced nationally.

missapril75

2gorgeousgirls wrote: »

I find it perfectly believable that half the population are earning under £26,000.

Agree.

DWP - largest government department. Can't recall exactly but most of the staff there are under £20k.

BigAunty

2gorgeousgirls wrote: »

I find it perfectly believable that half the population are earning under £26,000.

OK, (at the risk of making a fool of myself through lack of advanced maths) but average earnings don't necessarily mean that half the population earn less than 26k.

For all we know, 75% or more of the working population could earn much less than that but the dozens of billionaires and thousands of millions skew this sum.

For example, 3 people - one earns 10k, one earns 15k, one earns 70k. According to the average formula, they earn 31k. But two out of 3 earn less than 31k (substationally less than that).

I don't think 'average' earnings are particularly meaningful - I bet only a small percentage of working people earn bang on 26k per annum.

zagfles

BigAunty wrote: »

OK, (at the risk of making a fool of myself through lack of advanced maths) but average earnings don't necessarily mean that half the population earn less than 26k.

For all we know, 75% or more of the working population could earn much less than that but the dozens of billionaires and thousands of millions skew this sum.

For example, 3 people - one earns 10k, one earns 15k, one earns 70k. According to the average formula, they earn 31k. But two out of 3 earn less than 31k (substationally less than that).

I don't think 'average' earnings are particularly meaningful - I bet only a small percentage of working people earn bang on 26k per annum.

That's why people use the median rather than the mean. The median is the midway point ie if you lined everyone up in income order, whoever is in the middle. So 50% earn more, 50% earn less (ignoring those earning exactly the median).

The mean is the more usual definition of average, ie the total income divided by the number of people.

confuseddaughter_2

danielanthony wrote: »

This excludes all the thousands of self employed tradespeople and one man band companies who dodge PAYE and these statistics. Looking at the number of smart cars on the roads and £500k+ houses, I have great difficulty believing that half the workforce earns less than £26k.

I have the same problem too! Especially when my best friend, who owns two salons herself, they together own three houses valued at well over £750,000 in total, is able to obtain maximum working and child tax credits and have their children dressed in all manner of high end designer clothing. They have a nearly new BMW X5 as well as a three year old Range Rover. They holiday at least 4 times a year, including a cruise for themselves as well as two weeks skiing. She tells me that they are permanently on the breadline earning next to nothing!

tomtontom

confuseddaughter wrote: »

I have the same problem too! Especially when my best friend, who owns two salons herself, they together own three houses valued at well over £750,000 in total, is able to obtain maximum working and child tax credits and have their children dressed in all manner of high end designer clothing. They have a nearly new BMW X5 as well as a three year old Range Rover. They holiday at least 4 times a year, including a cruise for themselves as well as two weeks skiing. She tells me that they are permanently on the breadline earning next to nothing!

Any Mulberry handbags?