The EU debate

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

You'd pay a load more in tax on those pruchases.



No you don't. The UK basically trades with the EU and the USA. In the EU she pretty much trades with the Dutch and Irish.

I can see the side of import duties, but would they also shoot themselves in the foot with Export duties?

Do all EU nations have to pay extra to sell outside the EU?

andrewf75

mayonnaise wrote: »

Perfect example why a EU referendum is a bad idea.
No, I really don't want the likes of kteare deciding on the economic future of the UK, myself, family and friends.
Call me elitist if you like.

I'm trying to tell myself there must have been some kind of misunderstanding with kteare. I can't believe anyone is quite that naiive!

But its a valid point...although I'd argue that we should have a referendum because continually denying the people a say is making the EU more and more unpopular. Its hard to deny that Farage has some momentum and unless we do offer a referendum UKI P are going to start getting seats in parliament. A referendum would easily be winnable. Once the facts come out people will vote to stay, just as the Scots will. There is too much to lose and too much risk. People like security when it comes down to it.

kteara

mayonnaise wrote: »

Perfect example why a EU referendum is a bad idea.
No, I really don't want the likes of kteare deciding on the economic future of the UK, myself, family and friends.
Call me elitist if you like.

Typical Tory idealist

danothy

mayonnaise wrote: »

Perfect example why a EU referendum is a bad idea.
No, I really don't want the likes of kteare deciding on the economic future of the UK, myself, family and friends.
Call me elitist if you like.

You are elitist.

Do you find that insulting?

Thrugelmir

For the EU to work there has to be fiscal hamonisation. Tax of all descriptions has to put on a level playing field. At the moment there's a game being played to some countries advantage. Eire being the obvious example, i.e. Corporation Tax. Also Luxembourg - VAT. Once the advantages are removed. Then protectionism will raise it's ugly head. As it does in the USA on a regular basis.

Generali

tomterm8 wrote: »

But, if we left the EU we would still have a relationship with it, and since Europe benefits even more from the free trade agreement with the UK it is probable that they would want to keep it.

I say that as vaguely pro-european, but I have significant reservations. It appears to me that europe has changed and has now become an actual nation state.

I don't think we are in a free trade area anymore, or even a cooperation alliance like NATO. Europe is now basically sovereign and able to override the wishes of the UK population and its elected government. You see that in the banking regulations that Europe is bringing through against the wishes of the (basically tory) government. You see that in a whole heap of areas like immigration, and human rights law, and social policy, and employment and business law...

While I would probably vote for being part of the European state I think that the British people should be consulted. It should be a democratic decision.

It should be a democratic decision. I will exercise my right to the freedom of speech.

Just because the best overall outcome is something in particular, it doesn't mean that decision will be arrived at.

In theoretical terms we know that because of The Prisoners' Dilema. In practical terms we know that because of the 2 world wars.

You can break things down as much as you like. Britain can override England, England can override Surrey. Surrey can override Shere. Shere can override the residents of Middle Street.

Bantex wrote: »

I can see the side of import duties, but would they also shoot themselves in the foot with Export duties?

Do all EU nations have to pay extra to sell outside the EU?

I made my point badly. If you set import duties on a country then they are very likely to set import duties on you.

EU countries generally have to pay import duties to countries they export to. They extract import duties from countries they import from.

Intra-EU goods trade doesn't (generally) attract tax.

Bantex_2

Generali wrote: »

It should be a democratic decision. I will exercise my right to the freedom of speech.

Just because the best overall outcome is something in particular, it doesn't mean that decision will be arrived at.

In theoretical terms we know that because of The Prisoners' Dilema. In practical terms we know that because of the 2 world wars.



I made my point badly. If you set import duties on a country then they are very likely to set import duties on you.

EU countries generally have to pay import duties to countries they export to. They extract import duties from countries they import from.

Intra-EU goods trade doesn't (generally) attract tax.

Do you truly believe the UK would start charging import duties on say German cars?

Do we currently have import duties on Korean cars and electronics?

Generali

Bantex wrote: »

Do you truly believe the UK would start charging import duties on say German cars?

Yes

Bantex wrote: »

Do we currently have import duties on Korean cars and electronics?

No. There is a bilateral agreement with the EU. If the UK was to leave the EU then she would no longer be part of that agreement.

tomterm8

Generali wrote: »

You can break things down as much as you like. Britain can override England, England can override Surrey. Surrey can override Shere. Shere can override the residents of Middle Street.
.

But in practice it's rare for people to break up existing countries that are working and which people are happy with.

Scotland has already had one referendum, and looks like voting against the second...

The question isn't just economic it's political as well. Are people happy living within an European state? If they are, if the system is working well why would anyone vote against it? If they aren't then British people will have to live with the consequences of going it alone.

It's the reason why I supported the Scottish referendum while thinking Scottish people would be mad if they actually voted for independence.

andrewf75

tomterm8 wrote: »

The question isn't just economic it's political as well. Are people happy living within an European state? If they are, if the system is working well why would anyone vote against it? If they aren't then British people will have to live with the consequences of going it alone.

I don't see it as either we accept a European state or we leave. There is a third option of remaining a member and reforming it to what we want it to be - basically a free trade area. People across Europe don't want to give up their nationality for some superstate idea and it can't be forced on people against their will.