We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Rosie and Jim: Paying to go to work, childcare, what would you do?
StickySituation_2
Posts: 8 Forumite
Paying to go to work, childcare, what would you do?
A couple who are good friends of mine are in a bit of a panic about what they would need to do regarding their situation. I'll explain a bit of backstory, where they are at now, and ask what you think about the situation.
Backstory
The couple, let's call them Rosie and Jim, moved hundreds of miles away from their hometown to start new life as Rosie is furthering herself by studying nursing to be a nurse, Jim took a job in a call centre (which he ended up hating as he keeps chewing my ear off about the place) as that is what was available and helped him move with Rosie.
At the end of her first year although being precautious Rosie found herself pregnant, moved in with Jim and they have been living with other ever since, along comes their beautiful son and she takes interruption of study maternity leave from her course to return in a years time. she only recieves a bursary which apparently isn't classed as an income, as Jims 40 hour a week job pays 12k takehome after tax, he gets a few top ups with working tax credits and they get child benefit and child tax credits because of the one income and it being low. They have managed so far and are quite happy.
Where they are now.
The year is just about up and Rosie needs to return full time to uni, which is quite an intensive course so they have been looking into what it would cost for childcare or a childminder. This is where the panic is setting in. Jim told me that the cost of childcare, even the cheapest in their area works out at 11k a year, the childminders even more at around 13k. He has been humble enough to give me insight into his income and outgoings and not that many luxuries I might add, and have advised where cuts can be made... but...
From what I've worked out it seems like for all intents and purposes he would actually be paying to go to work, leaving him in the negative each month after all outgoings which we all know is bad, even with Rosies bursary it would not cover all the rent/bills/living expenses, which seems absurd given the situation Rosie needs to return to uni and finish her degree, he seems like he would be better off being a stay at home dad, which Rosie thinks is actually a good idea.
I enquired if they would get any help with childcare but as a full time student and one person full time working it seems they would get not much past the CB, CTC and WTC that they already recieve.
It seems if he did stay at home I believe they would then recieve housing benefit in addition to what they already get, obviously sans the WTC, but wouldn't be able to get income support for just being a stay at home dad or anything? I know what this looks like to some people, but they are grateful for any support they recieve and don't expect it, in fact they asked me if I thought there was anything wrong with it myself. If he stayed at home they wouldn't need to put their son into childcare, yes they would have less money, but they wouldn't be in the minuses each month (and we know where that can lead) Jim told me he would feel a bit scroungy doing this, but he has always worked, paid his taxes and it would be only temporary for 18 months until Rosie had qualified as a heathcare professional.
It's also not as if he is in a career himself and has told me time after time how much his current job stresses him (I know, we all get that) and there seems to be not that much security with his company and they impose quite unflexible targets and humilating proceedures. He says it is much more important for her to qualify as they wouldn't be even living where they were now if it wasn' for that, and her family want her to further herself, pretty much like anyone would. He would obviously go back to working once they both have an income, even in another job he hates, like you do, for your family, if push comes to shove.
What to do next
I've been helping them look into a few things, suggested some alternatives, and I know either of them wouldn't come on a internet forum so I have done by proxy, with names changed to protect the innocent of course.
I can keep an open mind and see two sides to every story, what would you do or suggest in this situation? (on one hand it seems like a no brainer really) is there any other help they can get?, I've looked into a few things, admittedly I don't profess to understand the ins and outs of the benefits system or some of its confusing literature, but I beleieve they may need some help for a short period, there must be so many others in the same situation too, Money Saving Expert forums, What do you think?
Summary
Rosie got up the duff while at uni, now she needs to return, Jim is working and bringing in the main income in the household and works 40 hrs per week, they get ctc/tc/and wtc, which helps a bit at the moment, but if they pay for ful time childcare, Jim will actually be paying out money each month to go to a crappy paid job he hates and wont be able to afford to pay bills rent, etc. Rosie thinks it might be a good idea for him to be a stay at home dad and give up work, which Jim likes the idea of but is a bit worried as not sure about relying on extra benefits for 18 months and feels a bit bad - they will have less income, but wont be paying out more than is coming in, and will be able to pay the rent bills and eat, so in some ways that makes them better off.
Is there any other help or advice any of you lovely people on MSE can give? and I'll pass anything useful on, possibly even link them to the thread if it takes off. Have we missed anything blinding obvious between the three of us looking into this?
Moderators: feel free to move this thread to where you think is best, I'm not used to forums being so broken up, although I did do some reading beforehand, this post pertains to so many different things.
Thanks.
A couple who are good friends of mine are in a bit of a panic about what they would need to do regarding their situation. I'll explain a bit of backstory, where they are at now, and ask what you think about the situation.
Backstory
The couple, let's call them Rosie and Jim, moved hundreds of miles away from their hometown to start new life as Rosie is furthering herself by studying nursing to be a nurse, Jim took a job in a call centre (which he ended up hating as he keeps chewing my ear off about the place) as that is what was available and helped him move with Rosie.
At the end of her first year although being precautious Rosie found herself pregnant, moved in with Jim and they have been living with other ever since, along comes their beautiful son and she takes interruption of study maternity leave from her course to return in a years time. she only recieves a bursary which apparently isn't classed as an income, as Jims 40 hour a week job pays 12k takehome after tax, he gets a few top ups with working tax credits and they get child benefit and child tax credits because of the one income and it being low. They have managed so far and are quite happy.
Where they are now.
The year is just about up and Rosie needs to return full time to uni, which is quite an intensive course so they have been looking into what it would cost for childcare or a childminder. This is where the panic is setting in. Jim told me that the cost of childcare, even the cheapest in their area works out at 11k a year, the childminders even more at around 13k. He has been humble enough to give me insight into his income and outgoings and not that many luxuries I might add, and have advised where cuts can be made... but...
From what I've worked out it seems like for all intents and purposes he would actually be paying to go to work, leaving him in the negative each month after all outgoings which we all know is bad, even with Rosies bursary it would not cover all the rent/bills/living expenses, which seems absurd given the situation Rosie needs to return to uni and finish her degree, he seems like he would be better off being a stay at home dad, which Rosie thinks is actually a good idea.
I enquired if they would get any help with childcare but as a full time student and one person full time working it seems they would get not much past the CB, CTC and WTC that they already recieve.
It seems if he did stay at home I believe they would then recieve housing benefit in addition to what they already get, obviously sans the WTC, but wouldn't be able to get income support for just being a stay at home dad or anything? I know what this looks like to some people, but they are grateful for any support they recieve and don't expect it, in fact they asked me if I thought there was anything wrong with it myself. If he stayed at home they wouldn't need to put their son into childcare, yes they would have less money, but they wouldn't be in the minuses each month (and we know where that can lead) Jim told me he would feel a bit scroungy doing this, but he has always worked, paid his taxes and it would be only temporary for 18 months until Rosie had qualified as a heathcare professional.
It's also not as if he is in a career himself and has told me time after time how much his current job stresses him (I know, we all get that) and there seems to be not that much security with his company and they impose quite unflexible targets and humilating proceedures. He says it is much more important for her to qualify as they wouldn't be even living where they were now if it wasn' for that, and her family want her to further herself, pretty much like anyone would. He would obviously go back to working once they both have an income, even in another job he hates, like you do, for your family, if push comes to shove.
What to do next
I've been helping them look into a few things, suggested some alternatives, and I know either of them wouldn't come on a internet forum so I have done by proxy, with names changed to protect the innocent of course.
I can keep an open mind and see two sides to every story, what would you do or suggest in this situation? (on one hand it seems like a no brainer really) is there any other help they can get?, I've looked into a few things, admittedly I don't profess to understand the ins and outs of the benefits system or some of its confusing literature, but I beleieve they may need some help for a short period, there must be so many others in the same situation too, Money Saving Expert forums, What do you think?
Summary
Rosie got up the duff while at uni, now she needs to return, Jim is working and bringing in the main income in the household and works 40 hrs per week, they get ctc/tc/and wtc, which helps a bit at the moment, but if they pay for ful time childcare, Jim will actually be paying out money each month to go to a crappy paid job he hates and wont be able to afford to pay bills rent, etc. Rosie thinks it might be a good idea for him to be a stay at home dad and give up work, which Jim likes the idea of but is a bit worried as not sure about relying on extra benefits for 18 months and feels a bit bad - they will have less income, but wont be paying out more than is coming in, and will be able to pay the rent bills and eat, so in some ways that makes them better off.
Is there any other help or advice any of you lovely people on MSE can give? and I'll pass anything useful on, possibly even link them to the thread if it takes off. Have we missed anything blinding obvious between the three of us looking into this?
Moderators: feel free to move this thread to where you think is best, I'm not used to forums being so broken up, although I did do some reading beforehand, this post pertains to so many different things.
Thanks.
0
Comments
-
Jim wouldn't get income support; as it's aimed at carers and lone parents of people whose youngest is under 5.
Are they entitled to the childcare grant from student finance?Sealed pot challenge #232. Gold stars from Sue-UU - :staradmin :staradmin £75.29 banked
50p saver #40 £20 banked
Virtual sealed pot #178 £80.250 -
For childcare costs, up to 70% can be claimed in working tax credits. This is up to a maximum of £122.50 per week for one child. It sounds like their childcare costs will be around £220 per week, so £100 more than they will receive specifically from WTC for the childcare.
Rosie will receive a grant and a bursary whilst on the midwife training. There is a specific forum for trainee midwives, where other people have asked similar questions. Maybe your friends would be best posting their own questions on there to receive the specialist knowledge in this area:
http://www.studentmidwife.net/fob/childcare-funding-help.65880/0 -
@indie kid
I thought not
I did ask them, re: nhs childcare grant, which says it is (magic words) up to the 85% which would be marvellous for them. They seem to think it would be means tested as well, but they have asked finance in the uni and no one can tell them how much until it is actually applied for once you have put the child into childcare, or on what means is it tested, which seems a little silly to me.0 -
I second the above. I too am looking at going to uni and it appears there's a childcare grant available covering 85% of costs with some universities covering the remaining 15%.The will to save every money saving penny we can0
-
For childcare costs, up to 70% can be claimed in working tax credits. This is up to a maximum of £122.50 per week for one child. It sounds like their childcare costs will be around £220 per week, so £100 more than they will receive specifically from WTC for the childcare.
Rosie will receive a grant and a bursary whilst on the midwife training. There is a specific forum for trainee midwives, where other people have asked similar questions. Maybe your friends would be best posting their own questions on there to receive the specialist knowledge in this area:
*link removed as I'm not allowed to post them*
Fair enough, seems a little more do-able. They told me they had tried an online calculator that worked out tax credits, etc... and it said that they were eligible for the same amount of CTC, WTC as they recieve, but the Childcare element was £0.00, I haven't tried it myself, but would being so close to the end of this financial year affect the calculators outcome?
Thanks for the link, I'll see if I can coax them into posting, they are quite forum shy.0 -
They'd both have to be working at least 16 hours (there are a few exceptions to this - being a student isn't one of them) to claim the childcare element of WTC.Sealed pot challenge #232. Gold stars from Sue-UU - :staradmin :staradmin £75.29 banked
50p saver #40 £20 banked
Virtual sealed pot #178 £80.250 -
They'd both have to be working at least 16 hours (there are a few exceptions to this - being a student isn't one of them) to claim the childcare element of WTC.
Ah I see, I think this is why then, as I just checked with them and only one person will be working.
I suppose it doesn't account that nursing etc.. can be pretty full on,especially with things like dissertations/study/placements and then having a child, didn't know that!
From other site about NHS childcare and dependants allowance (which was difficult to find anything about before)
"There isn't a det cut off as its not purely based on income, they take into consideration outgoings and residual income too. So what they do is take your income, deduct your outgoings and see what's left. From the figure that is left they allocate so much money for each person in your household... If there is still money left you won't get dependents allowance and therefore only some or no childcare help depending on how much is left.
If there is a minus figure you will receive dependents allowance and full childcare help. It means that some households with low income but very low outgoings won't receive help as they have lots of leftover income, whilst households with higher incomes may receive help as they have much higher outgoings such as larger mortgages or larger families or both and therefore a smaller disposable income. Hope that helps and makes sense!"
Seems a bit more reasonable0 -
If she is a trainee nurse, then it is likely that the hospital that she is training at will take her on the staff bank as a Health Care Assistant - she could top their income up by doing this whilst also gaining valuable experience and a relevant reference when she has completed her training. Many student nurses do this.
Alternatively, Jim could look for work that covers weekends or evenings so that the hours do not clash with when Rosie is at Uni.0 -
The nhs childcare bursary is all based around their residual income. Deduct 85% of their childcare from this and nhsba will pay the difference.
Although i think nhsba pay £125/wk max towards childcare, so your friend will still have to find £100/wk on top, if their nursery is £11k a yr.
My OH is on a similar income and i have 3 kids that i can claim for. I dont get full nhs bursary due to our residual income, so with 1 child i doubt your friend will get the full 85% either0 -
If she is a trainee nurse, then it is likely that the hospital that she is training at will take her on the staff bank as a Health Care Assistant - she could top their income up by doing this whilst also gaining valuable experience and a relevant reference when she has completed her training. Many student nurses do this.
Alternatively, Jim could look for work that covers weekends or evenings so that the hours do not clash with when Rosie is at Uni.
Both of these are always easier to say than to do I reckon, although notings impossible. Rosie has extensive HCA experience but would find it more than difficult to juggle it all and still get a good level of pass, everyone is different, I don't think I could keep that up for long though myself. Jim, well he could theoretically look for work that is out of hours, which he informs me he has been, and work that pays more as he has skills in other areas - again, there seems to be no joy on that front, and the tiem is running out quickly, he tells me they are on to him at work and thinks that they will get rid of him soon, as he has been unfortunate that he has had a few periods of sick absence through no fault of his own and the added stress of this situation is making him quite anxious. also then, with overlaps the only time anyone would sleep is the short space of time they are both in. (not trying to be overtly negative here, just the flip side of the coin)
Thank you for the input everyone, it's giving a few other angles / opinions to the fold0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354.6K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.5K Spending & Discounts
- 247.5K Work, Benefits & Business
- 604.4K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.6K Life & Family
- 261.9K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards