EU Bank account recommendation

jonesMUFCforever

darius_jedburgh wrote: »

You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Government of Gibraltar issued notes and Bank of England issued notes are both denominated in exactly the same currency - the Pound Sterling.

They are notes in the same currency merely from different issuers, just like the Scottish bank notes (although the legal basis for issue is slightly different - the backing basis is similar).

Your statement "There is no market in the UK for Gibraltar currency" is devoid of any meaning.

Firstly, as I've just explained, they are bank notes deonminated in the SAME currency - the Pound Sterling.

Secondly, there is nothing legally stopping anyone who chooses to from accepting a Gibraltar issued note in the UK, however there are no circumstances where anyone is under an obligation to do so - as it is not legal tender, Bank of England issued notes are the only notes that are legal tender in England and Wales (and no notes are legal tender in Scotland).

Please do not comment on things when you don't know what you are talking about.

I absolutely know about this.
You cannot buy Gibraltar currency in the UK and no UK bank or travel exchange will buy the notes back from you - FACT.
As I do this for a living I think I know which currencies I can trade in.
Thank you for your post.

darius_jedburgh

Hazzanet wrote: »

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/gibraltar/money

That page, written in an 'every day' style of English supports what I have said. Notice that they do not use the term 'currency' at all when contrasting Gibraltar issued notes and coins with UK issue - because they are in the same currency.

The statement 'Gibraltar notes and coins are not accepted in UK' is true in an an every days sense - which is the style of the page. And as I said nobody is obliged to accept them in the UK, nor Scottish notes, but the popular acceptance is low. I will get a better wording put on this bit.

[It does have an error in it, it uses the term 'British issues', as reference when it should say 'UK issues'. Gibraltar and the UK are both British - so the term is wrong as a comparision. I will get this corrected.]

darius_jedburgh

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

I absolutely know about this.
You cannot buy Gibraltar currency in the UK and no UK bank or travel exchange will buy the notes back from you - FACT.
As I do this for a living I think I know which currencies I can trade in.
Thank you for your post.

Well I'm afraid you are wrong.

I think a big part of it is your usage of the word 'currency' - you are using it with regard to physical issues, when you should be saying 'issues of notes and coins'.

I am legally experienced in the matter (I can take you through the UK and Gibraltar legislation if you want?), work in the industry, have contacts with both governments.

Also I have previously obtained UK government (via FCO) official clarification letter (which agreed with my position) and then used that to obtain from 'an award winning UK telephone bank' compensation for a position they were adopting which was legally wrong.

Further, you will actually find UK airport bureau de change scandalously selling people Gibraltar issued notes in return for UK issues, charging anything up to a 10% premium, despite them being notes denominated in values of the same currency, used intermixed in Gibraltar. They are free to do this, but I can tell you some of them got into legal bother for calling it a 'currency exchange rate', when not currency exchange occurred, it was an 'exchange' (of issues) though.

You will further find some buying them back for a similar or greater premium.

So your statement that they are not bought in the UK is wrong. But again, note they are not a separate currency, just a different note issue - some of the FX companies got into legal bother about that.

Hazzanet

darius_jedburgh wrote: »

[It does have an error in it, it uses the term 'British issues', as reference when it should say 'UK issues'. Gibraltar and the UK are both British - so the term is wrong as a comparision. I will get this corrected.]

<pedantry>
Given that it says "Most businesses in Gibraltar will not accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes." shouldn't it say "Bank of England issued notes"?
</pedantry>

jonesMUFCforever

darius_jedburgh wrote: »

Well I'm afraid you are wrong.

I think a big part of it is your usage of the word 'currency' - you are using it with regard to physical issues, when you should be saying 'issues of notes and coins'.

I am legally experienced in the matter (I can take you through the UK and Gibraltar legislation if you want?), work in the industry, have contacts with both governments.

Also I have previously obtained UK government (via FCO) official clarification letter (which agreed with my position) and then used that to obtain from 'an award winning UK telephone bank' compensation for a position they were adopting which was legally wrong.

Further, you will actually find UK airport bureau de change scandalously selling people Gibraltar issued notes in return for UK issues, charging anything up to a 10% premium, despite them being notes denominated in values of the same currency, used intermixed in Gibraltar. They are free to do this, but I can tell you some of them got into legal bother for calling it a 'currency exchange rate', when not currency exchange occurred, it was an 'exchange' (of issues) though.

You will further find some buying them back for a similar or greater premium.

So your statement that they are not bought in the UK is wrong. But again, note they are not a separate currency, just a different note issue - some of the FX companies got into legal bother about that.

The 10% premium is the exchange rate!!
They are not the same currency - if you do not believe me take Gibraltar note into any bank tomorrow and ask for it to be changed.
..Or ask them online today if they take Gibraltar notes - they won't.

System

The Gibraltar pound is a currency board and has it value fixed with GBP.

I saw in latest issue of notes, the Gibraltar government added Sterling to increase acceptability but this still didn't make them GBP.

What 'legal bother' as it costs them money to obtain, stock and issue Gibraltar notes. Are UK banks and BDGs to operate as a charity?

darius_jedburgh

Hazzanet wrote: »

<pedantry>
Given that it says "Most businesses in Gibraltar will not accept Scottish or Northern Irish notes." shouldn't it say "Bank of England issued notes"?
</pedantry>

You are quite correct. It was fundamentally wrong saying 'British notes', however simply chaining it to the correct distinguising term of reference 'UK' would then still leave it messy - by definition it would include Scottish and NI notes, but then would remove them explicitly in the later sentence.

Has now been revised to:

"Sterling is the currency in Gibraltar. Bank of England issued notes and UK coins are accepted, and circulate mixed with locally issued notes and coins of the same value in pounds and pence. Notes issued in Scotland or Northern Ireland are not usually accepted in Gibraltar, and Gibraltar issued notes and coins are not usually accepted in the UK."

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/gibraltar/money

darius_jedburgh

jonesMUFCforever wrote: »

The 10% premium is the exchange rate!!
They are not the same currency - if you do not believe me take Gibraltar note into any bank tomorrow and ask for it to be changed.
..Or ask them online today if they take Gibraltar notes - they won't.

You are correct it is an 'exchange rate', but it is an issue exchange rate rather than a currency exchange rate.

It would be the same as charging someone 10% to convert a Clydesdale Bank note into a Bank of England note.

Do you consider the notes issued by the banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland to also be a 'different currency'?

Just because someone does not wish to accept an obscure issue does not make it a difference currency.

darius_jedburgh

Heng_Leng wrote: »

The Gibraltar pound is a currency board and has it value fixed with GBP.

Not correct.

The notes are issued denominated in GBP. There is no currency called the Gibraltar pound. Do not rely upon wikipedia, it is completely wrong on this point legally. Look at the prevailing legislation. Or read the book by Richard Garcia.

The changed wording on the most recent issue series was to clarify this, given the existence of some misconception. But previous notes have carried the term, and they have all been issued in Sterling.

What 'legal bother' as it costs them money to obtain, stock and issue Gibraltar notes. Are UK banks and BDGs to operate as a charity?

The problem was not charging people a premium to exchange them, it was (a) calling it a currency exchange and/or (b) using the terms GBP & GIP to represent the sides of the exchange.

Some of the firms did both, some only one of the two.
No change of currency occurred, only a change of issue.
Both sides were in GBP.
GIP as a currency does not exist (although an entry for such does exist in the ISO table).

Given the very low level of UK familiarity and acceptance, I have no real problem someone in UK airport arrivals charging a premium to convert GoG issued notes into BoE or other UK issues. (Although the issuer of the notes, GoG, will do so 1:1 as a condition of issue - the same as the Scottish and NI banks will do with their issues).

It is morally questionable though to be charging people upstairs in departures a premium to convert BoE notes into GoG issued notes - when they have exactly the same value in the same currency, and are used intermixed in Gibraltar.

Also, by offloading them to people who are departing the UK, the company in question avoids the cost of repatriating them themselves. So if anything, I would consider fractionally under face to be an appropriate selling price, given the markup they will acquire on those people want to swap downstairs.

They never acquire new stock of GoG issued notes, it is only those they collect downstairs that they are wanting to off load, and if they are out of stock they then tell people they don't need them and their BoE notes are fine!