Do I need to register to HMRC as a business, or pay tax?

Flyonthewall

belfast88 wrote: »

What would happen in that case?

I don't know, but someone else may be able to answer that. It wouldn't be good though. If you inform them yourself as soon as possible you don't need to worry about that anyway.

UserX

RFW wrote: »

It depends what it is. I buy products from China, none of which need testing. It isn't just electronics that are imported. Even some audio items don't need safety testing.

Sure. Which is why I said in my post that we don't actually know what the OP is selling - the inference being it might not be relevant

2013yearofthehouse

Sorry to interupted slightly off topic, but where would the line be in needing to register.

Selling used items that are years old? No need
Selling used items that are months old? Or weeks old?
Selling items you've had years, but never used, so selling as new?
Selling new items you've not had long? Gifts or items bought you intended to use, there was no intent to sell when buying - single items or low number that you bought to sell could seem non intentional? But if you sell 10(?) or 100 (where's the limit?) of same item, would seem obvious you bought to sell, but what if you've had them for years (regardless of whether you bought them to sell or not)

Even single used items can be bought to sell, but also just as likely to be items from around the house you've had for years. Multiple new items more likely to be bought to sell, but could still be items you bought years ago, with no intention to sell, and just never used.

Buying a multipack intentionaly to keep some items, but selling the remaining you don't want? For example, clothing items that come in packs of many colours and selling the colours you don't want

Flyonthewall

2013yearofthehouse wrote: »

Sorry to interupted slightly off topic, but where would the line be in needing to register.

Selling used items that are years old? No need
Selling used items that are months old? Or weeks old?
Selling items you've had years, but never used, so selling as new?
Selling new items you've not had long? Gifts or items bought you intended to use, there was no intent to sell when buying - single items or low number that you bought to sell could seem non intentional? But if you sell 10(?) or 100 (where's the limit?) of same item, would seem obvious you bought to sell, but what if you've had them for years (regardless of whether you bought them to sell or not)

Even single used items can be bought to sell, but also just as likely to be items from around the house you've had for years. Multiple new items more likely to be bought to sell, but could still be items you bought years ago, with no intention to sell, and just never used.

Buying a multipack intentionaly to keep some items, but selling the remaining you don't want? For example, clothing items that come in packs of many colours and selling the colours you don't want

If you buy the items for personal use and then sell them later on you're selling privately.

If you buy to sell you are a business.

That's all there is to it. The age of the items, where they come from, how much they cost, the amount of items or anything else is not important. If you bought it with the intention to sell it and not use it for personal use then you are buying to sell and you are a business.

soolin

Flyonthewall wrote: »

If you buy the items for personal use and then sell them later on you're selling privately.

If you buy to sell you are a business.

That's all there is to it. The age of the items, where they come from, how much they cost, the amount of items or anything else is not important. If you bought it with the intention to sell it and not use it for personal use then you are buying to sell and you are a business.

Although one person I am vaguely aquainted with swore blind that second hand items were always exempt from tax, only new goods could be considered business stock. She wasn't sure how that affected very high end antique dealers though selling Ming vases - and it rather upset her argument. (She sold second hand clothes in great quantities and made a very nice income out of it, all undeclared until DWP caught her)

Flyonthewall

soolin wrote: »

Although one person I am vaguely aquainted with swore blind that second hand items were always exempt from tax, only new goods could be considered business stock. She wasn't sure how that affected very high end antique dealers though selling Ming vases - and it rather upset her argument. (She sold second hand clothes in great quantities and made a very nice income out of it, all undeclared until DWP caught her)

lol ah dear. Some people have some strange ideas about business. It's all online though - the HMRC site and .gov have a ton of helpful information for a start.

2013yearofthehouse

Flyonthewall wrote: »

If you buy the items for personal use and then sell them later on you're selling privately.

If you buy to sell you are a business.

That's all there is to it. The age of the items, where they come from, how much they cost, the amount of items or anything else is not important. If you bought it with the intention to sell it and not use it for personal use then you are buying to sell and you are a business.

I suppose intention lies with honestly, although quantity would be a factor in spotting someone who's lying. You could buy a few items and then decide you don't like them or they don't fit, so sell them on ebay a week later (or even buy an item hoping it will colour match something else or fit, but knowing that if it doesn't you can just sell it on). Only you would personally know you didn't buy them with the intention to sell them. Obviously if you starting selling hundreds of items that you bought a week before and claimed you'd just changed your mind, it would be harder to believe!

Flyonthewall

2013yearofthehouse wrote: »

I suppose intention lies with honestly, although quantity would be a factor in spotting someone who's lying. You could buy a few items and then decide you don't like them or they don't fit, so sell them on ebay a week later. Only you would personally know you didn't buy them with the intention to sell them. Obviously if you starting selling hundreds of items that you bought a week before and claimed you'd just changed your mind, it would be harder to believe!

It wouldn't need to be in the hundreds. Even a handful of items each week could become obvious, especially if it's the same type of item and more so if only bought the week before.

If someone kept selling items saying they were new and they decided they didn't like them anymore I'd think that odd. Who keeps buying things they don't like? Similar for item doesn't fit - if it's new and you realise it doesn't fit you can usually take items back and get a refund.

Perhaps harder to tell with used items, but if they're constantly selling items and especially the same type of items the chances are they're buying to sell. Obviously there are exceptions - house clearance (although generally that would include various items) and massive private collections. Might be able to prove you're doing that anyway. However, if they're continuing to sell these items over a number of years it's more likely it's a business.

2013yearofthehouse

Flyonthewall wrote: »

It wouldn't need to be in the hundreds. Even a handful of items each week could become obvious, especially if it's the same type of item and more so if only bought the week before.

If someone kept selling items saying they were new and they decided they didn't like them anymore I'd think that odd. Who keeps buying things they don't like? Similar for item doesn't fit - if it's new and you realise it doesn't fit you can usually take items back and get a refund.

Perhaps harder to tell with used items, but if they're constantly selling items and especially the same type of items the chances are they're buying to sell. Obviously there are exceptions - house clearance (although generally that would include various items) and massive private collections. Might be able to prove you're doing that anyway. However, if they're continuing to sell these items over a number of years it's more likely it's a business.

Exactly, it's the patterns that would make it obvious - quite interesting really, studying patterns to try and spot the scenario. By saying hundreds, I meant hundreds a year, rather than a week, and was exaggerating an example of more than a few a year, which wasn't clear in my post. Also, I was thinking more of items from auction houses or car boots, that you can't take back. I'm not sure if my posts are coming accross as argumentative, I don't mean them to, I'm just pondering "out loud", and am in agrement with you anyway!

It had just got me thinking about a time I sold some brand new ink cartridges. My printer broke and the new one I got took different cartridges. Obviously I bought the ink with the intention to use myself and if I'd been selling 1 or 2 cartridges it would appear that way, but I sold quite as few, as they had been on special offer so I'd stocked up and was doing a lot of printing at the time. Of course to an outsider it could look as though I'd bought them to sell and in theory I could have, but since it was a one off there was no repeat pattern.

Anyway, clearly I'm having a boring Sunday and should be doing something more productive than pondering such things!

fairydiamond

belfast88 wrote: »

Any idea what happened to her? A fine? Criminal record?

With you asking these questions, to me it makes it look like you are weighing up the risks of not declaring your business to HMRC.