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Shill bidding...
Comments
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Serious question, how do you know when someone is shill bidding on their own items?
Some of the typical indications (and they are only indications) are as follows:
1. An account that only seems to bid on the items of one seller, and bids on a large number and wide variety of items.
2. Potentially shilling account has low, or no, feedback. Sometimes the feedback that is there is only from one seller.
3. When this account 'purchases' an item, the item is relisted. Sometimes very quickly, such as within a few minutes of the sale happening.
4. Feedback is given to the 'buying' account very quickly after a sale. And is positive even if the item is quickly relisted.
5. The shilling account may use small incremental bids to bump up the bids of other bidders. Particularly worrying if the shiller bumps up the bids incrementally, then retracts its last bid so that another bidder is winning the auction at or near to their maximum bid.
6. A converse to 5 is the 'hidden reserve'. A shill account may make a single high bid on an auction early on, which acts as a reserve bid and prevents the item selling for too little without having to pay reserve fees to ebay. (And also creates the pretence of a low start bid).
If you have a look through auctions, I'm sure you'll find some examples which match many if not all of these indicators. As Ebay doesn't take effective action against shill bidding, a lot of shilling sellers don't seem to take care to cover their tracks.0 -
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The first 4 points there would have applied to the buyer I referred to, so whilst they may all be signs they aren't as clear cut in every case.Some of the typical indications (and they are only indications) are as follows:
1. An account that only seems to bid on the items of one seller, and bids on a large number and wide variety of items.
2. Potentially shilling account has low, or no, feedback. Sometimes the feedback that is there is only from one seller.
3. When this account 'purchases' an item, the item is relisted. Sometimes very quickly, such as within a few minutes of the sale happening.
4. Feedback is given to the 'buying' account very quickly after a sale. And is positive even if the item is quickly relisted.
5. The shilling account may use small incremental bids to bump up the bids of other bidders. Particularly worrying if the shiller bumps up the bids incrementally, then retracts its last bid so that another bidder is winning the auction at or near to their maximum bid.
6. A converse to 5 is the 'hidden reserve'. A shill account may make a single high bid on an auction early on, which acts as a reserve bid and prevents the item selling for too little without having to pay reserve fees to ebay. (And also creates the pretence of a low start bid).
If you have a look through auctions, I'm sure you'll find some examples which match many if not all of these indicators. As Ebay doesn't take effective action against shill bidding, a lot of shilling sellers don't seem to take care to cover their tracks..0 -
The first 4 points there would have applied to the buyer I referred to, so whilst they may all be signs they aren't as clear cut in every case.
Again I think you aren't being very clear. Were you relisting the exact same item? Or an item of the same type? When I say 'the same item' in point 3, I mean the exact same item, such as a guitar with distinctive scratches or a car with a recognisable numberplate showing that it's the same car. Not an item of the same type as the one that sold.
Could you please clarify?The OP doesn't mention anything at all about the type of auction that he/she attempted to report.
No, but tech spec and Porto Bello did, and that is the context that my posts were intended to engage with. The OP doesn't say what the characteristics of the auction they reported are, and hence I can see no other context in which to interpret your reply except for the examples by tech spec and Porto Bello.0 -
Oh. I didn't realise that thread responses needed to be so specifically targetted. I followed the opening post and subsequent comments and added something based on my own experience, which is, presumably, what every other comment on this thread did.No, but tech spec and Porto Bello did, and that is the context that my posts were intended to engage with. The OP doesn't say what the characteristics of the auction they reported are, and hence I can see no other context in which to interpret your reply except for the examples by tech spec and Porto Bello.
The items I sold could have been seen as being unique and could have been seen that it was the exact same items being relisted. So much so that I (eventually) ended up adjusting each relist slightly and adding new pictures..0 -
Some of the typical indications (and they are only indications) are as follows:
1. An account that only seems to bid on the items of one seller, and bids on a large number and wide variety of items.
2. Potentially shilling account has low, or no, feedback. Sometimes the feedback that is there is only from one seller.
3. When this account 'purchases' an item, the item is relisted. Sometimes very quickly, such as within a few minutes of the sale happening.
4. Feedback is given to the 'buying' account very quickly after a sale. And is positive even if the item is quickly relisted.
5. The shilling account may use small incremental bids to bump up the bids of other bidders. Particularly worrying if the shiller bumps up the bids incrementally, then retracts its last bid so that another bidder is winning the auction at or near to their maximum bid.
6. A converse to 5 is the 'hidden reserve'. A shill account may make a single high bid on an auction early on, which acts as a reserve bid and prevents the item selling for too little without having to pay reserve fees to ebay. (And also creates the pretence of a low start bid).
If you have a look through auctions, I'm sure you'll find some examples which match many if not all of these indicators. As Ebay doesn't take effective action against shill bidding, a lot of shilling sellers don't seem to take care to cover their tracks.
Thanks, I have sometimes wondered why, when there are a lot of the same item listed, sometimes one of them has 11 bids and the others have none, I'm guessing I've seen it going on without realising.
I suppose some of the (manual) snipers at the last minute could be shill bids too but I'll still continue bidding that way I think rather than showing my hand too early as it were.Make £25 a day in April £0/£750 (March £584, February £602, January £883.66)
December £361.54, November £322.28, October £288.52, September £374.30, August £223.95, July £71.45, June £251.22, May£119.33, April £236.24, March £106.74, Feb £40.99, Jan £98.54) Total for 2017 - £2,495.100 -
Oh. I didn't realise that thread responses needed to be so specifically targetted. I followed the opening post and subsequent comments and added something based on my own experience, which is, presumably, what every other comment on this thread did.
The items I sold could have been seen as being unique and could have been seen that it was the exact same items being relisted. So much so that I (eventually) ended up adjusting each relist slightly and adding new pictures.
Think you confusing one off items RHemmings is referring to with items where multiple are available. As you replied to the post mentioning singular items - that's whats being referred to.
Eg. the car i refered to had the same pic, same descripton, same reg, same faults and dings, and mileage.
You really saying the seller could have a lot of these cars?
In such a case shill bidding is certain and Ebay are still not
interested.
Contrast that with items i buy almost daily from the same seller and do not have any relationship with the seller. In this case i could be a repeat buyer (and i am
), and Ebay have less proof to act on. 0 -
I thought I'd explained well enough, but obviously not....Think you confusing one off items RHemmings is referring to with items where multiple are available. As you replied to the post mentioning singular items - that's whats being referred to.
Eg. the car i refered to had the same pic, same descripton, same reg, same faults and dings, and mileage.
You really saying the seller could have a lot of these cars?
In such a case shill bidding is certain and Ebay are still not
interested.
Contrast that with items i buy almost daily from the same seller and do not have any relationship with the seller. In this case i could be a repeat buyer (and i am), and Ebay have less proof to act on.
An example of similar to what I was selling would be a signed oil painting. Each was unique yet, more or less identical to the previous one. It was merely an illustration that sometimes shill bidding can be seen when it isn't there.
I don't know if any of the cases mentioned were or not, it sounds like most were.
As I said earlier some of the new changes may halt some of it, but it's not something that will ever go away in live or online auctions. Having looked at some of the software involved in other auction sites (especially ones with extended auction ends) they really do make it easy..0 -
When a seller is listing many items and the same one or two buyers are gently and incrementally counter-bidding the price upwards when a genuine bid appears, this is usually enough for me to leave the seller alone. [Especially if their bids are just below natural price points, such as £19.99, £49.97, £99.92 etc].Serious question, how do you know when someone is shill bidding on their own items?
But for confirmation, have a look at the seller's items. If you see that they are listing items across a diverse range of categories, yet the same bidder is placing bids across all kinds of categories and items, though usually only once someone else bids, this is pretty much a smoking gun.
Lastly, private auctions: this is where the seller chooses to hide the bidder and buyer IDs. I never go near sellers who do this. In my view, a seller who has issues with bidder transparency is a seller to be avoided."The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing.
...If you can fake that, you've got it made."
Groucho Marx0 -
porto_bello wrote: »When a seller is listing many items and the same one or two buyers are gently and incrementally counter-bidding the price upwards when a genuine bid appears, this is usually enough for me to leave the seller alone. [Especially if their bids are just below natural price points, such as £19.99, £49.97, £99.92 etc].
But for confirmation, have a look at the seller's items. If you see that they are listing items across a diverse range of categories, yet the same bidder is placing bids across all kinds of categories and items, though usually only once someone else bids, this is pretty much a smoking gun.
Lastly, private auctions: this is where the seller chooses to hide the bidder and buyer IDs. I never go near sellers who do this. In my view, a seller who has issues with bidder transparency is a seller to be avoided.
Thanks. So (not sure if I'm allowed to post this link so please remove if not) would you say this item was being shill bidded on?
http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=251485433292Make £25 a day in April £0/£750 (March £584, February £602, January £883.66)
December £361.54, November £322.28, October £288.52, September £374.30, August £223.95, July £71.45, June £251.22, May£119.33, April £236.24, March £106.74, Feb £40.99, Jan £98.54) Total for 2017 - £2,495.100
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