Item paid with Credit Card failed during warranty period. Question...

chattychappy

grumbler wrote: »

And 3 years is just a warranty period, not the expected lifespan of the monitor. So, this pro-rata calculation is simply incorrect. My Dell serves me well since 2007... touching wood...

My Microvitec Cub 653 is still working well - purchased 1983. I make that 31 years!

billymadbiker

I don't want to hijack the op's thread with this but I was just pointing out how the rules/law can be applied so, although worth a haggle, I may be tempted to accept an offer like he has been given due to my previous battles!

Although, as pointed out, we are a business so it may well be that you get other rights as a private individual.

Our case was more complex as the item was sold to us over a payment period of 10 years. This credit/lease was provided by the maker. It then turned out that they took an upfront payment from themselves when a contract was made and also ran a secondary finance house that we payed back to. The original offer was to extend the lease and have new kit however that then got turned down as they only accept fully working kit back!.
In the end, it was the company who make the kit who, basically took themselves to court. At the time they were the only supplier so we (apart from counting as professional ourselves) had very little to fall back on.
The item we purchased was from a uk firm but I think it was made in china. They obviously had a lot of problems as they stopped altogether for a while then the replacement product is sourced from the usa but at over twice the cost and thats 10 yrs on.

billymadbiker

chattychappy wrote: »

My Microvitec Cub 653 is still working well - purchased 1983. I make that 31 years!

So is that any indication that all Club 653's should work for 30yrs?
Or does that mean they should all work for at least 10?
Who decides?

A friend of mine has a very expensive watch. it recently cost him several hundred pounds to get fixed and it was only about 5 yrs old. Is the price you pay for something any relation to how long you should expect it to work for or is there simply a list somewhere saying a fridge should last 10yrs, a dishwasher for 5?

Would a £800 pound dishwasher be expected to last 4 times longer than a £200 one?

The problem with our case was there is nobody who could tell us how long it should last so the only information the judge had to go on was the warranty period which he considered a statement by the maker of how long they expected it to remain trouble free for.
It then became simple enough to say It cost £50, should last 5yrs. you have had it for 3yrs so you get £20 back plus £5 for having to take the day off work and drive here!

As kia offer a 7yr warranty on there cars why could I not buy a vw and then demand they fix it for free in 6yrs if it breaks because kia have stated cars should last 7yrs?
I think it may have something to do with the warranty offered forming part of the T&C's when the original sale is made.

mamboboy

Thanks for the replies (and no problem about the thread hijacking!).

Scan don't repair items as far as I know, they just test for faults. In my case they tested the power supply, deemed it working (but the monitor not), so then sent it back to the manufacturer (Hazro) to either repair or replace.

Hazro, are well known to be terrible for their customer and warranty service. Given my monitor was discontinued, or rather, replaced with a V2 model (which is just a glass-less version of the same monitor) and their monitors are made in China, I honestly expected them to just send me a refurb of that model (which is now ~£319.99) rather than repair mine. But alas, they didn't

I didn't get any email notifications after subscribing to this thread, so out of defeat I accepted the £147, and they were very fast to give it - so I assume they definitely could have been bargained with! But I guess they would have just offered me a replacement monitor to that value? Although I really should have at least tried to get them to re-contact Hazro and tell them I want a replacement? Damn!:mad:

Thanks again for the help. Does anyone think it's worth to try the Sales of Goods act with my bank? Although, seeing as a full refund is pretty much out of the question, it probably isn't worth it?

terryads

mamboboy wrote: »

Basically, I bought a computer monitor roughly 2 years ago for around £480 with my credit card. It came with a 3 year warranty - but back in January it suddenly stopped working.

So I sent it off to the store (Scan), who then sent it to the manufacturer. Fast forward to yesterday where I get an email saying the manufacturers can't repair or replace it - and Scan (like many other IT companies) have a policy of only refunding depending on how long the item has been owned. I received just £148.

Now, I'm wondering... would it be possible for my bank (HSBC) to pay back the remaining amount? or would they just laugh at me? I mean, a monitor that expensive should be expected to last at least the length of the warranty period, surely?! I bought it especially for professional work, but now the amount I'm refunded is barely enough to buy a budget monitor to replace it!

Thanks in advance for any help

After posting below I noticed you'd updated whilst I was having my tea, but just for future reference my thoughts were as follows.
I would say you have been hard done by.
Unfortunately I've seen this before - I recall it featured on "Watchdog" or something similar. It's probably the cheapest way out for them, rather than unrepairable.
I would say the issue is not so much the warranty but enforcement of your SOG rights for which there is a good guide elsewhere on MSE (Consumer Rights Armour). It's hard to believe that it's not reparable after 2 years, and an LCD monitor should last many many years, especially if a premium brand/model, and the decrement for usage/age they are applying is excessive.
It sounds like you no longer have access to it, but an independent repair specialist would be able to advise you on spares availability for that model, and also if what you experienced is a common fault. Frequently with LCDs it's the inverter and they are generally easily repaired - I recently did my own laptop for £40, and that had the inverter integral with the screen so was more expensive. Try going back to them and telling them you're not happy, want an independent assessment of the fault and its repairability and reserve your SOG rights. That at least might flush a bit more money out of them - their offer is a starting point And ultimately you can take them to the small claims court, although no longer having access to the monitor could be a big obstacle, but you do have to give them the opportunity to repair and the Judge would take that into account.
I would also try contacting the manufacturer directly about expected lifespan (they define it as "Mean Time Between Failure") and how long spares are available, without first letting on you have an ongoing issue. That info can then be tendered against them.
Good luck

yangptangkipperbang

grumbler wrote: »

This just proves that judges aren't immune from .............(or corruption?)

.......your mainly sensible points raised in your earlier posts have been rendered null and void by this inane comment !!!!

billymadbiker

I would also like to know if there are any rules regarding availablity of spare parts or the need to supply tech info for an item to enable you to get it fixed elsewhere.

I purchased a flat screen led TV back in the days before digital. This was only 17" or so but was up in the £500 bracket. It had a 'port' on the back that you could plug in the anaglog tuner card, or a board with a scart socket in. The advertising, instructions and packaging both made a big deal of this 'port' as it allowed for future 'upgrades' to be plugged in.
Along comes freeview, so I email to ask for the part number for a digital tuner board to replace the analogue one.
'not going to be made' was the reply.
I am now stuck with an external freeview box hanging under the tv when it still works perfectly fine.

A mate of mine has a large panasonic plasma that has the same plug-in board arrangement. This cost him about £3.5k when it came out but same story, as they develop stuff and make stuff cheaper (ie make more profit) they are not willing to look at support for customers that have previously purchased stuff.
When my phillips tv went wrong (it was 8-10yrs old) the local tv repair place told me the name and part number of the board that had burnt out but no spare parts available from phillips. TV man said he would be able to get all the various parts from other sources but phillips would not provide any sort of diagram to show what parts were fitted either!

bris

As it was a B2B transaction you have no consumer rights.

But to your point if you did have consumer rights they have not been breached.

A warranty, in this case 3 years, comes from the manufacturer, who you have no contract with and are over and above your statutory rights so you have to refer to their T&C's.

Because it was not repaired or replaced by them the retailer who you do have a contract with takes responsibility under SOGA and they can then repair, replace or refund depending on what is most cost affective for them, you do not get to choose.

Because the first 2 are out that leaves refund which takes into consideration for the use you have had from the item on a pro rata basis, which is what they have done so you have had your consumer rights upheld.

The fact is you are really entitled to nothing as you used it for commercial purposes.

mamboboy

Sorry, should have made it more clear... I didn't buy it as a business. When I say 'professional use' I mean it was necessary for my graphic design, which I was qualifying for at the time. Should have said education purposes really!

terryads

mambobby
Don't be too hard on yourself - hindsight is a cruel mistress. I suspect you've probably made a sensible pragmatic decision in reality, as you would likely have had a fair old fight and it's a question ultimately of whether you need the aggro in your life. And at least you have some cash to take elsewhere and spend on a better brand.

I would still say that it's the SOG rights which were your best weapon which notionally give 6 years in which to take action (although this is not to say goods are automatically expected to last that long - some clearly should not).

In your case a monitor should last a lot longer, but your difficulty is that the law puts the onus on you in your circumstances to prove your case, and that means commissioning expert reports and finding expert opinion on what is a reasonable lifespan expectation - all of which you have to cough up for upfront (and it ain't cheap). And of course the catch 22 is the "sending back to the manufacturer" clause. You have to do it but it effectively prevents you getting a second opinion (they will probably have binned it - possibly without looking at it all).

billymadbiker makes some good points too about how they make life difficult for the consumer - they used to call it "planned [FONT=&quot]obsolescence"[/FONT] in the car field, but I believe manufacturers are now legally required to have spares available for a substantial period after ceasing production (10 years rings a bell, but I may be wrong there). We need similar prection for other consumer goods.