tax office error and underpayment

seadreaming

Hi
I'm trying to help a friend out re child tax credits to do with possible underpayment.
Just over 2 years ago my friend was expecting with her second child and about 2 months prior to the birth rang the tax office to ask if she would be entitled to child tax credit. She was told she wouldn't be. Shortly after the birth she rang again to double check and was told the same thing.
Recently though she found out through another parent that she would have been eligible, she rang the tax office this week who have said 'oh yes, you would have been' but are also saying tough nothing you can do now. They have a record of the first phone call but not the second.
I can find information about 'dispute' versus 'appeal' to do with overpayments but I'm struggling with information re tax office error and underpayments.

I'm hoping she can at least dispute this but I'm wondering if there is any particular wording/points that need to be included?
Thanks
SD

Icequeen99

blondebubbles wrote: »

She cannot dispute as this process is solely for overpayments.

She can however appeal.

I doubt she can appeal. If it was a phone call checking entitlement then there is no claim, no decision on the claim and so no appeal rights.

I think the only option is to file a complaint and ask for compensation equal to the missing tax credits. You will need copies of the phone calls to back up what she said.

IQ

skateykatey

Alternatively, she can submit a claim now and then, once they get an award notice , submit an appeal and ask for backdating. What SHOULD happen at that point is that the phone calls will be checked to verify the advice given and, providing that there was a clear intent to claim, she can get it backdated.

Icequeen99

skateykatey wrote: »

Alternatively, she can submit a claim now and then, once they get an award notice , submit an appeal and ask for backdating. What SHOULD happen at that point is that the phone calls will be checked to verify the advice given and, providing that there was a clear intent to claim, she can get it backdated.

Could try this, but I have had a Tribunal case thrown out in these circumstances because the Tribunal just didn't have the power to backdate more than 90 days (at that time - it is 1 month now) because as I said above, even if there is proof the phone call was made, the legislation with respect of a claim being made is not met so the date of claim cannot be moved to accomodate it.

However if the evidence is strong in the phone call recordings, i think it would definitely be successful down the compensation route.

OP - i would suggest you do both things. Get a copy of the phone call recordings first, then file a complaint asking for the missing tax credits and put in a new claim and lodge an appeal when you get the first notice saying you want longer backdating.

IQ

seadreaming

Thanks for all the information. My friend's going to get a new claim in asap and write a letter of complaint and also ask for a copy of record of the phone call. Interestingly they told her over the phone that they couldn't tell her what was said in that phone call but I guess if she requests in writing then they will have to respond to that?
SD

Icequeen99

seadreaming wrote: »

Thanks for all the information. My friend's going to get a new claim in asap and write a letter of complaint and also ask for a copy of record of the phone call. Interestingly they told her over the phone that they couldn't tell her what was said in that phone call but I guess if she requests in writing then they will have to respond to that?
SD

Yes, on their system they will be able to see 'household notes' - just notes the operators make of calls or they may just see a call was made. If you do a subject access request you can give approximate dates and ask for recordings of the calls. I suggest you also ask for a copy of household notes.

skateykatey

Icequeen99 wrote: »

Could try this, but I have had a Tribunal case thrown out in these circumstances because the Tribunal just didn't have the power to backdate more than 90 days (at that time - it is 1 month now) because as I said above, even if there is proof the phone call was made, the legislation with respect of a claim being made is not met so the date of claim cannot be moved to accomodate it.

However if the evidence is strong in the phone call recordings, i think it would definitely be successful down the compensation route.

OP - i would suggest you do both things. Get a copy of the phone call recordings first, then file a complaint asking for the missing tax credits and put in a new claim and lodge an appeal when you get the first notice saying you want longer backdating.

IQ

IQ; I'm guessing that we work in similar arears. I've had success at Tribunals with an intent to claim rather than straightforward backdating. Claim and Notification regs apply here. The issue, I suspect, in your case, is that Judge wasn't signposted to the appropriate reg and didn't know them well enough to question why it wasn't included in the submission.
ETA (Reg 5(2)(b))

Icequeen99

skateykatey wrote: »

IQ; I'm guessing that we work in similar arears. I've had success at Tribunals with an intent to claim rather than straightforward backdating. Claim and Notification regs apply here. The issue, I suspect, in your case, is that Judge wasn't signposted to the appropriate reg and didn't know them well enough to question why it wasn't included in the submission.
ETA (Reg 5(2)(b))

We did use 5(2)(b) in our submission, the Judge essentially agreed with HMRC that a general enquiry about entitlement was not sufficient in the circumstances of the case (5(3)). The claimant didn't want to take it any further, as in that case it wasn't a large amount or a long period.As it happened, a complaint we filed at the same time was successful (left hand/right hand :-)) and so claimant didn't want to pursue the appeal any further.

OP should definitely do both.

Good to know you have had some success with the argument under 5(2)(b).

IQ