Chiltern / Met / Roxburghe

The_Deep

@The Deep - whilst your analogy regarding loss is accurate - sadly the small claims county court judges do not always see this......

You say that, but can you give any examples where PE have beaten a well crafted defence? Civil Court Judges are not fools you know.

bod1467

There have been cases (check PP's website for transcripts) where cases have been won by defendants on various points, but judges have been minded to accept the GPEOL assertion by PPCs.

So they may not be fools, but they don't always get it right either.

The_Deep

I have checked their website. They claim the scalps of Graves, Hudson, and Brewer, but I can find no transcripts on the internet.

Querym

I think he must have acknowledged he was driver on appeal. I have looked at some POPLA decisions on failing to properly display tickets, and it doesn't look too encouraging! Maybe arguing the unfair cost might fare better, but one appeal I've just read, had that refused too. Think I will reply to Gladstone's per the template given (so grateful for that, thank you!), I called Chiltern Railways customer services, they said talk to Met Parking, and Met Parking say it is 'now out of their hands'....this is just so infuriating!!

Coupon-mad

The_Deep wrote: »

I have checked their website. They claim the scalps of Graves, Hudson, and Brewer, but I can find no transcripts on the internet.

ParkingEye win every day in court - believe us we know - and of course most victims never come on a forum and are probably floundering, but some lose even with decent defences. There was a guy the other day who reported that he lost and the Judge didn't even look at him, let alone ask for his side.

Querym

Looking at the POPLA decisions posted on the guidance sticky, it sounds very much like the appeal panel / court seems reluctant not to uphold the terms of a contract. So if a sign clearly states that failure to display will result in £x of a fine, then I guess you are deemed to have accepted those terms. My initial thoughts on this issue, was that an appeal would not allow any amount be imposed that was deemed a 'penalty' and bore no relation to it's actual losses, but that doesn't seem to be the case? Is that really how things are evolving with parking fines?
On the station car park annual ticket theme, it's not as if we have a choice of carparks in order to get to work, when you buy your annual train ticket, the annual car park fee is paid at the same time. So surely, this 'penalty' is unfair, they have all the bargaining power, and the poor chap trying to get to work, has none?? And while I understand a notice on failure to display a ticket is reasonable in terms of pay & display one off tickets, although in the past when this has happened, supplying the actual ticket, is usually proof of purchase and the fine is waived, so why would this be any different? There is full documented record of purchase, at the station, and in terms of the actual ticket itself, I just do not understand why they would take such a dogged approach? If this is resolved by POPLA, how likely is it they would uphold the fines? Has there been anyone with a similar issue in relation to annual tickets like this?

Coupon-mad

Looking at the POPLA decisions posted on the guidance sticky, it sounds very much like the appeal panel / court seems reluctant not to uphold the terms of a contract.

Sounds like you've been reading the POPLA decisions sticky from the first posts (over a year old, includes old decisions). You'd be better reading from the most recent posts there, backwards, and spotting all the recent bail-outs by MET and others as soon as they see 'no GPEOL' mentioned! Have a look!

prjohnsonnn10

if you search on my name in the posts you will see i am reasonably well acquainted with chiltern and met parking.

i won 3 popla appeals against them a year ago and they have now withdrawn popla appeals at all chiltern car parks. for good or bad they have cited me as the çause for this. i will explain below HOW they say they can do this......

so.......... if you can get a popla code from them you will be doing well........ the other poster is correct in that met now will not defiend a popla appeal anywhere else (mcdonalds etc etc) if gpeol is cited but im pretty sure that they will not offer you a popla appeal process on chiltern railways land.

they have stated to me and to dvla (who are currently doing an investigation into mets procedures at chiltern stations) that they are 'managing the car parks under railways byelaws as it is railway land and as such is exempt from pofa........which is correct of course . the issue has now arisen though therefore , which i have raised with dvla who are still releasing keeper details to met , as to what APPEAL process then that MET are indeed offering . ????

on this point Met have refused to answer me direct and so we have ended up putting the complaint in the dvla hands.

met have tied themselves in knots basically by trying to continue to operate the breach of contract model on railway land where they want keeper details but wont offer an appeal process.!

in addition met have been issuing tickets for 3 years at chiltern car parks with both tickets and correspondance all quoting byelaws AND pofa together. on this point i contested the validity of the tickets and met agreed that the tickets were indeed issued !n error''and refunded the amounts to me and my wife. I have been in touch with parking prankster on us initiating a full 'refund campaign'on the back of this admission from met but before doing so we are waiting to see the outcome of the dvla deliberations. in short we believe that dvla ,who now know that met have been issuing !nenfoceable tickets' by their own admission , have a duty to 'request' MET to initiate all of these refunds on all of the chiltrern car parks going back 3 years . dvla wont like this as it is getting into very large amounts but on the basis that met hav admitted taking monies under unenforceable tickets we believe they have a duty under consumer trading law to initaite the refunds.

So........... a long ramble and its down to you.......... ask for a popla a code and you have a choice........... appeal as the keeper and they cant win that one because there is no keeper liab on the chiltern railway land OR go the bog standard route of not a GPEOL .

peter

Querym

Wow, thanks couponmad, you guys on this forum are amazing. So the GPEOL trick is still a possibility. Another interesting point, is that hubby purchased his ticket late January, nothing mentioned regards hefty fines on not displaying at ALL times at the Chiltern ticket office etc., and at the time, there was just one sign in the car park. A few months after he purchased his ticket, another batch of hugely visible signs were erected all around the car park. Maybe this can help? I mean, you buy an annual ticket, you feel it kind of gives you a 'recorded privilege' of sorts?? So all these points aside, I guess our first plan of action should be to reply to Roxburghe's Gladstone's letter, setting out willingness to be bound by POPLA's decision etc., and then prepare ourselves for that on the basis of this and a no GPEOL? Thank you so much for your replies

Querym

Posted before I saw your post Peter, very interesting! Please excuse my abject ignorance on 'parking fine' matters, but I am guessing that if my husband had not declared himself as the 'driver', and he was merely representing himself as the 'keeper', there would be an issue here? Well he was the driver of course, it's his car, and only he drives it, and we are very much play by the truth kind of people, so that's perhaps not an option, but the GPEOL could well be, so thank you so much for your advice, you are all so fantastic!