TSB business bank account closed following a review!

Opinion

Okay, apologies for the long message here but I've just read through the TSB Business Banking Terms & Conditions and highlighted the only section that I believe is relevant. I may be interpreting this incorrectly but Section 12.10 states;

"Subject to clause 12.9 we may terminate this Agreement by giving you at least two months’ written notice." and Section 12.11 states;

"We reserve the right to require any account to be closed without giving a reason. This applies even if closure of the account results in a loss of tax benefits, and we will not be liable to compensate you for any loss of tax benefits or other consequential or indirect losses whatsoever and howsoever arising."

So yes, while they do have the right to close my account without reason, they do have to give me two months' written notice? I'm very appreciative of the replies that I have received thus far and would be over the moon if someone could have a quick read through this long post to make sure I am reading it properly.

12.
Modifications to Terms and Conditions/Termination/Closing of account
12.1
You may cancel or amend your Authority by writing to us at TSB Bank plc, Business Banking, PO Box 1000, BX4 7SB or by completing and signing the bank form that we provide for that purpose and sending it to us at TSB Bank plc, Business Banking, PO Box 1000, BX4 7SB. You must give us at least two clear Business Days after we receive your communication to put it into effect.
12.2
We may change any provision of this Agreement.
12.3
Subject to clause 12.4, we will notify you in writing at least two months before we make any change to this Agreement. You will be deemed to have accepted any such change if you do not notify us to the contrary before the date any such change comes into effect. However, if you choose not to accept any change:
•
you can close the account at any time before the change comes into effect provided that any outstanding amounts on the account are paid; or
•
our notice of the change shall be deemed to be notice of termination given under clause 12.10 and this Agreement will terminate the day before any change comes into effect. Should there be any outstanding balance on the account it will become immediately due and payable on termination.
12.4
We may change this Agreement at any time to reflect changes in law, regulation or codes of practice which apply to us or the way we are regulated. We will always endeavour to give you at least two months’ notice of such changes in accordance with clause 12.3 wherever possible. Where this is not possible we will give you as much prior notice as reasonably practicable.
12.5
When we tell you about a change we will do so by letter, e-mail, text, statement, statement inserts or messages or in any other way which is sent to you individually.
12.6
If we agree to fix any condition for a certain time, we will not change it during that time.
12.7
Where we can notify you about a change in a number of different ways under clauses 12.5 above and 5.7 above, we will do so in a way that we reasonably think is likely to come to your attention and which satisfies legal and other regulatory requirements.
12.8
This Agreement will continue until terminated in accordance with this clause.
12.9
We may terminate this Agreement immediately if any of the following occur:
(a)
if any information you have given us or give us in the future (whether in connection with this Agreement or not) is inaccurate;
(b)
if any material litigation is, or material administrative, criminal or judicial proceedings are, being taken against you at the time this Agreement is signed and you have not informed us in writing before entering into this Agreement (“material” means likely, if successful, to have any damaging effect on your business);
(c)
if you are a sole trader you die, become of unsound mind, become insolvent (or in Scotland, apparently insolvent) a bankruptcy petition (or in Scotland, a petition for sequestration) is presented against you, or steps are taken to appoint an administrator, judicial factor or similar officer to you or you apply to the court for a moratorium or make a proposal to creditors for a voluntary arrangement or you grant a trust deed for creditors or take any action (including entering negotiations) with a view to readjustment, rescheduling, forgiveness or deferral of any part of your indebtedness;
(d)
if you are a limited company or limited liability partnership, you have a petition presented or resolution passed for winding up or an administration order or a notice of intention to appoint an administrator is issued or notice of appointment of an administrator is filed with the court or you have a receiver appointed over all or part of your assets or you cease to trade, or you are deemed by law unable to pay your debts, or you make an application in connection with a moratorium or a proposal to creditors for a voluntary arrangement or take any action (including entering into negotiations) with a view to readjustment, rescheduling, forgiveness or deferral of any part of your indebtedness, including in Scotland granting a trust deed for creditors;
(e)
if you are a partnership (including a limited liability partnership) or unincorporated association, you dissolve or a petition is presented for an order to be made for the winding-up of the partnership or an application or a petition is presented or made for an administration order against the partnership;
(f)
if you are a limited liability partnership, any member ceases without our written consent to be a member or you cease for any reason to be a limited liability partnership;
(g)
if you fail at any time to meet any checks required by law or regulation;
(h)
if closure is required by the order of any court or direction or decision of a regulator; or
(i)
if you breach in a serious or repeated way this Agreement or any other agreement with us.
We may terminate the SEPA Debtor DD Service in respect of the B2B Scheme immediately if you cease to be eligible to be classified as a “Business Customer” under the B2B Rules.
12.10
Subject to clause 12.9 we may terminate this Agreement by giving you at least two months’ written notice.
12.11
We reserve the right to require any account to be closed without giving a reason. This applies even if closure of the account results in a loss of tax benefits, and we will not be liable to compensate you for any loss of tax benefits or other consequential or indirect losses whatsoever and howsoever arising.
12.12
You may terminate this Agreement by giving us at least one month’s written notice. We shall not charge you for the termination of this Agreement after 12 months from its commencement.
12.13
Any closure of your accounts by you or by us will not release you from any liability in respect of any sums owing to the Bank or from any previous liability or indemnity for any act performed by the Bank in accordance with instructions received from you or an authorised signatory under the Authority. Should there be any outstanding balance on any of your accounts it will become immediately due and payable on termination.

Savvy_Sue

WRT one of your earlier posts, I suspect that if they suspect fraud or money laundering, they can't just speak to you about it and check the situation out. Obviously, if you were money laundering or doing something fraudulent, that would tip you off, and you'd come up with some persuasive explanation.

I would think carefully before following the advice to not say they've closed your account, but rather say their customer service fell short. If the next bank finds out that the account was closed, they'd have the right to summarily close this next account too, from what you've posted above.

Opinion

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

WRT one of your earlier posts, I suspect that if they suspect fraud or money laundering, they can't just speak to you about it and check the situation out. Obviously, if you were money laundering or doing something fraudulent, that would tip you off, and you'd come up with some persuasive explanation.

I would think carefully before following the advice to not say they've closed your account, but rather say their customer service fell short. If the next bank finds out that the account was closed, they'd have the right to summarily close this next account too, from what you've posted above.

That's one of the things that's really stressing me out- I don't want to lie about why I'm looking for a new bank account, but I'm worried I'm now on some sort of blacklist.

teabelly

It is a customer service issue as they haven't offered the required notice or any explanation whatsoever. The bank could easily say it was due to suspect transactions and not say anything else at all. But they haven't. They've said nothing. The OP is innocent until proven guilty. I don't see why the OP should say anything at all until they know what the actual reasons are and why the account was closed and whether the accusations/reasons are actually true. It could be a monumental mistake by the bank so the OP has their business reputation damaged for what could be some bank teller's typo.

Opinion

teabelly wrote: »

It is a customer service issue as they haven't offered the required notice or any explanation whatsoever. The bank could easily say it was due to suspect transactions and not say anything else at all. But they haven't. They've said nothing. The OP is innocent until proven guilty. I don't see why the OP should say anything at all until they know what the actual reasons are and why the account was closed and whether the accusations/reasons are actually true. It could be a monumental mistake by the bank so the OP has their business reputation damaged for what could be some bank teller's typo.

Thank you.

With regards to suspect transaction, I can provide invoices and communications with all of our suppliers to prove that we are purchasing stock, I can provide paperwork from my accountant and solicitor to prove that everything is legal and legitimate, I can provide accounts and Profit & Loss documents that I use to run the business, I can provide statements from the company that process our credit/debit card transactions to show they are all legitimate, and I can provide our daily/weekly/monthly Z Reports from our till system that will match up with the deposits we make in to the business bank account (and can get the company that handle sold/installed/handle our tills to confirm in writing that everything with regards to the reports and tills is genuine)

From what I understand I have to raise my complain with the bank and see how they handle it before I can raise it with the Financial Services Ombudsmen, so I guess I'll see how tomorrow goes.

Opinion

I popped in to work this morning and found this in the post:



(http://postimg.org/image/4y9qrgxex/ in case that image doesn't show properly.)

Went in to my branch to hand in my debit card, paying in book and cheque book as per the letter, and also to bank our weeks takings in to my personal account. "The manager is off today." so I spoke to the assistant manager. He said he's never seen a letter like that before, that he is disgusted, but that he can't do anything about it and that I'll have to phone the business banking team. He also said he hopes I get something out of it.

I've also been doing a bit of searching and found these:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19511542 and http://www.fsa.gov.uk/doing/regulated/banking/bcobs

I don't suppose anyone hear has any experience of either of them?

Opinion

Just another update; called the number on the letter and spent 10 minutes being passed around and put on hold. Got put through to a Relationship Manager whom reiterated that the account has been closed but that they have no further information as to why, and confirmed that I can't appeal. I referred her to their T&C's, but she didn't have access to them so didn't know what I was talking about, and would only say that their is a provision within them to close accounts without giving any reason- very helpful.

They have agreed to post my bank statements for the duration that the account was open (within 7-10 days) which will be helpful, and confirmed that a cheque with our balance will be posted out within 3 days of the account being formally closed- which it hasn't been yet, and they can't confirm when it will be. So they've still got over £10,000 of my money and can't tell me with any accuracy when I will be getting that back.

They have also confirmed that they don't/won't share any information with other banks, financial institutions or credit agencies, and that they account will just show up as having been closed without stating if it was them closing it or me closing it, and won't say why, so at least that takes some stress out of the situation.

Update: While I've been typing this they have called me back and told me that they cannot post out the statements too me and that I'll have to go back to my branch and ask them to print them off for me.

tomterm8

teabelly wrote: »

It is a customer service issue as they haven't offered the required notice or any explanation whatsoever. The bank could easily say it was due to suspect transactions and not say anything else at all. But they haven't. They've said nothing. The OP is innocent until proven guilty. I don't see why the OP should say anything at all until they know what the actual reasons are and why the account was closed and whether the accusations/reasons are actually true. It could be a monumental mistake by the bank so the OP has their business reputation damaged for what could be some bank teller's typo.

It is a criminal offense under the money laundering regulations to inform someone that you suspect them or money laundering.

If they suspect it is money laundering they have the right to close the account under twelve point nine g.

Opinion

tomterm8 wrote: »

It is a criminal offense under the money laundering regulations to inform someone that you suspect them or money laundering.

If they suspect it is money laundering they have the right to close the account under twelve point nine g.

I understand that completely but I would have assumed that I would be told that the account was under investigation and asked to show proof that whatever they suspect is legitimate, the right to defend myself, or at least show that whatever algorithm they're using to detect fraud isn't 100% perfect.

Johnandabby

tomterm8 wrote: »

It is a criminal offense under the money laundering regulations to inform someone that you suspect them or money laundering.

If they suspect it is money laundering they have the right to close the account under twelve point nine g.

But if they suspect that it's money laundering, wouldn't they have to report it to the police or someone? Just closing the account doesn't seem to make much sense.

As a small business owner, I'm following this with a lot of interest. I've got my annual meeting with our Barclays bank manager tomorrow, and will be asking questions about this - I know that we would really struggle as a company if we lost access to our account for a few weeks! Might even make me open a second account with another bank just to guarantee access to funds.