Elite Management - Notice to Keeper received 91 days from PCN

ColliesCarer

BPA web site says they are a member but I see they've made no mention of that on their NtK. Their web-site does not give any indication of trade memberships either.
Threads from people who also got tickets from Elite seem to have gone the POPLA route so maybe this is a recent attempt by Elite to skirt the processes.
I think they should be reported to the BPA, the DVLA and the Information Commisioner (ICO registered no: Z1653397 from their web-site)

If you know the car park and are close enough to check out the signage might be worth taking some photos of signs for T&C's displayed and on P&D machine BUT ..... before bothering to do anything yet

Hang fire for others who are familiar with this company to advise

ColliesCarer

Might like to add that you will be reporting them to the BPA, the DVLA and the Information Commisioner (ICO registered no: Z1653397 from their web-site)

blunther

Thanks again Collie - by not alluding to their membership of BPA, do they breach some guidelines that I could refer to in the letter, and therefore use that to threaten them with going to BPA, DVLA and ICO?

ColliesCarer

Their NtK fails to comply with BPA Code of Practice - as an approved operator they sign up to abide by it.

Sorry should also have added it's their Approved Operator status that gives them access to DVLA records (which I understand means they should also abide by POFA 2012)

spacey2012

We are seeing PPC's revert back to the Old Pre- POFA system, they can do this, it worked for them then and it removes the risk of paying a POPLA fee.


I would suggest as it fails miserably at establishing POFA keeper liability it gets treat like the old system did.

bod1467

Just send the first appeal from the NEWBIES thread, perhaps adding a point regarding out of time:

Dear {company name of this member of ''PPC World''},

PCN number xxxxxxx
As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which of course, I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner
2) Your signage does not comply with your ATA Code of Practice and was not sufficiently prominent to create any contract
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass
4) Your Notice To Keeper (NTK) was issued more than 56 days after the alleged parking incident. As such it is out of time to invoke registered keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA 2012).

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you and my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours,



{the registered keeper's name} NO NEED TO USE A REAL SIGNATURE

hoohoo

You should also complain to trading standards as they are demonstrably neither Elite nor offering serious Management.

:-)

Coupon-mad

I'd be interested to see them explain a 'contractual fee' (as required by the IPC) for 'not displaying a ticket correctly'!

Not doing something correctly = alleged breach, in anyone's book!

blunther

I've embellished the standard letter to mention a couple of points - thoughts?

Dear Sir/Madam,

Re: PCN number XXXXXXX

As the registered keeper, I have received your parking invoice which I decline your invitation to pay. I wish to invoke your appeals process, since all liability to your company is denied on the following basis:

1) The amount being claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss to your company or the landowner.
2) It is difficult for the keeper to assume responsibility for the alleged contravention for failing to display a valid ticket when you have not substantiated this allegation by any photographic evidence.
3) You are not the landowner and do not have the standing to offer contracts nor to bring a claim for trespass unless you can assert otherwise.
4) Your Notice To Keeper (NTK) was issued more than 56 days after the alleged parking incident. As such it is out of time to invoke registered keeper liability under the Protection of Freedoms Act (POFA 2012).
5) There is a valid ticket still in the vehicle for the time and location of the alleged contravention, of which a copy is enclosed.
6) Your NTK fails to comply with BPA Code of Practice, of which you are a member

Please issue your standard cancellation letter or a specific, detailed rejection letter. If you choose to send the latter, it must state:

- the legal basis of your charge (i.e. breach, trespass or contractual fee?) as your signage was not seen/accepted by the driver and your recent Notice failed to make the basis of the charge clear. As keeper, I cannot be expected to guess the nature of the allegation.

- if alleging breach of contract, with your rejection letter I require a breakdown of the liquidated damages suffered, and by whom, and when this calculation was determined and how this particular 'loss' arose. Please also explain how/why you charge a fixed sum no matter whether the alleged contravention was trivial or more serious and how that can amount to a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

- if alleging trespass please enclose evidence of the perpetrator and proof of the liquidated damages alleged and the calculation of this sum.

- if alleging 'contractual fee' I require that you now send me a VAT invoice by return and explain the daily rate for parking and service provided for the fee. Failure to provide this information and a VAT invoice now that I have requested it, will be considered evidence that this was not in fact a genuine offer to park for a fee and is merely a penalty which is not recoverable in contract law (as found by Mr Recorder Gibson QC, on appeal at Luton County Court in the case of Civil Enforcement v McCafferty 3YK50188 (AP476) 21/2/2014).

Take formal note:

(a) Your unsupported, unsolicited invoice and any further letters if you persist, will constitute harassment. If you continue, your contact and that of any agent will be deemed a 'serious and persistent unwarranted threat' as found by Lord Justice Sedley in Ferguson v British Gas Trading Ltd [2009] EWCA Civ 46 (10 February 2009) and I reserve the right to take the matter further. You have been informed that I consider this to be harassment so any decision to send further letters rather than cancel the invoice will reinforce the evidence of your persistent unwarranted threat and you may be required to justify your actions in court.

(b) Any obfuscation on your part, such as pretending I have to name the driver, alleging I am too late or unable to appeal as keeper or requiring more evidence when clearly I have already set out my full challenge for this stage, will be reported to the DVLA and to your respective ATA, as a sanctionable breach of your Code of Practice.

(c) If you reject my challenge and insist upon taking the matter further I must inform you that I may claim my costs from you for my time at the court rate of £18 per hour. The expenses I may claim are not exhaustive but may include the cost of stamps, envelopes, travel expenses and legal fees as well as liquidated damages for distress arising from harassment.

By continuing to pursue me you hereby accept liability to pay my costs when I prevail and you acknowledge and imply full understanding of the above.

Yours faithfully,

You're all champions by the way. You should be proud of yourselves. No excuse for not paying a fair rate to park, or parking like an oaf, but when you've paid fairly and parked fairly and still get these, it's good to have people on your side.

Cheers!

bod1467

I probably wouldn't bother with item 6, but item 5 is a good addition.