Leasehold agreement not showing hallway landing

pineneedles

Hi,
We're hopeful FTBs of a 2nd (top) floor leasehold flat. Our solicitor has sent us a copy of the lease terms. The lease is being extended by a deed of variation which the vendor is paying for before we exchange contracts but the solicitor has sent us the original lease in the meantime for review.

The entrance way into the flat is from the first floor of the communal staircase, and there is a stair landing between the 1st and 2nd floors which is therefore situated inside the flat. The landing is big enough for the current owner to have his washing machine and a storage cupboard on it.

My concern is that the lease schedule floor plan shows only the 2nd floor of the house as forming the premises. The landing isn't shown.

I have queried this with our solicitor who says that we have right of access through the stairs but that only the 2nd floor shown on the plan belongs to the leasehold flat we are buying.

Is this normal? Would you not expect all areas inside the door to a leasehold flat to form the property? Could the freeholder (even if only in theory) move the doorway into the flat further up the staircase so that the landing would no longer be inside the flat?

The landing and the stairs to the 2nd floor being inside the flat was one of the things we really liked about the flat - having the extra space to be able to have a washing machine on the landing instead of in the kitchen, and the flat having a split level feel as a result and feeling more spacious because of the landing and the staircase. The landing is also shown on the estate agent's floor plan which accompanied the memorandum of sale.

Our solicitor is from a local company and has been very prompt and helpful with most queries but I felt he brushed this one off - maybe I just didn't manage to get across how it feels the landing forms part of the flat and separate from the communal areas. After all the solicitor hasn't seen the flat. Just uncertain whether I should push him to query this further with the vendor or the freeholder.

G_M

pineneedles wrote: »

Hi,

I have queried this with our solicitor who says that we have right of access through the stairs but that only the 2nd floor shown on the plan belongs to the leasehold flat we are buying.

Is this normal? Would you not expect all areas inside the door to a leasehold flat to form the property?

.

Sounds strange to me. Yes, I'd expect "all areas inside the door to a leasehold flat to form the property".

The implication is that those areas not included (the stairs /landing) either

1) belong to another flat/leasehold or
2) are common areas

In either case, I would be worried!

If it were me, I would not buy unless this were clarified/amended. But changing the terms of a lease can be slow...........

cattie

The stairs probably are common areas as suggested by GM.

It is unlikely that the freeholder would ever want to move the access door as there would be nothing for them to gain by that, but of course I understand that you want to have some kind of confirmation on that.

If the stairs are communal property, then it is up to the freeholder to arrange to maintain the area rather than the owner of the flat, which itself could present some difficulties I imagine. Would you have to ask permission to decorate or carpet the stairs for instance if you wanted to?

Many upper floor flats do not include the loft space in their lease, even though the only access to it is through their property. Owner's of these type of flats can usually secure the loft space for themselves by buying it from the freeholder.

So perhaps this is something you could do regarding the stairs if you really do want the flat; see if it's possible to pay a nominal sum for the stairs to the freeholder to make them legally part of your premises?

pineneedles

Thank you GM and Cattie.

As it happens our solicitor is raising a query about the loft too - it was open during open day to show access and the property particulars mentioned loft storage but this isn't mentioned on the lease.

Had another look at the lease plan and the stairs actually show on it, just the landing below doesn't.

If the landing isn't in the lease and we put our washing machine on the landing like the current owner, would that risk invalidating insurance covering the washing machine as it technically wouldn't be inside the flat? And would we be in breach of lease putting a washing machine there anyway as there is a clause forbidding items being kept in the "communal hallways"?

It seems like an omission from the lease plan as no one else could possibly use the area - it is inside the flat.

Will ask our solicitor to query it. Maybe we could pay to have it added to the lease property but then we would also want to negotiate the price down by the same amount, as we offered on the assumption the landing was part of the flat.

silvercar

If the landing isn't in the lease and we put our washing machine on the landing like the current owner, would that risk invalidating insurance covering the washing machine as it technically wouldn't be inside the flat?

Insurers generally accept that anything inside your lockable front door is yours. I've never heard of insurers demanding copies of land registry documents.

And would we be in breach of lease putting a washing machine there anyway as there is a clause forbidding items being kept in the "communal hallways"?

Is the hallway shown as communal? Or is it not shown on the deeds at all?

princeofpounds

Your solicitor didn't brush you off as I can see, he gave you a straightforward answer. The landing is not part of the flat. Unless a mistake has been made by failing to give you another section of the plan, which is unlikely.

Probably the same with the attic too.

If you offered on the basis of the attic, I'd be looking at renegotiating the price.

The landing is a more difficult problem to solve. I certainly would not want common areas inside 'my' flat.

pineneedles

Okay, maybe brushed off wasn't the right phrase but he seemed to think it was worth querying the loft (as the flat was marketed as having loft storage) but not the landing which definitely had been marketed as belonging to the flat as it was included on the floor plan provided by the vendor and included in the floor area calculation.

Good to know that it's not an insurance concern. Maybe it's not a huge issue in practice - how can a hallway be communal when it's inside a private locked front door?

The lease plan only shows the leasehold flat ("demised premises"). There's no plan of the communal areas, the lease just says we have right to use the "entrance halls staircases passages leading to the demised premises" along with other occupiers of the buildling.

Thank you all for your advice. I have asked the solicitor again if he could query this in the same way as he is querying the loft. It's a nice idea being able to renegotiate the price if these areas aren't included but I would worry the vendor dropping us in favour of someone willing to pay the full price regardless... The survey is booked for next week so we'll see what that says.

G_M

I would put the survey on hold till you have got clear answers from your solicitor and decided what to do.

fred7777

G_M wrote: »

I would put the survey on hold till you have got clear answers from your solicitor and decided what to do.

Good advice, also consider if you would want the flat without the landing.

It seems to me the most probable explanation is the landing isn't part of the flat and you only have rights of access. It doesn't matter where the door is or what the estate agents have said.

Is it possible that a previous owner has moved the door to incorporate the landing when it shouldn't be part of the flat?

Potentially the free holder could move the door or ask you to move it.

pineneedles

Not an option sadly - already paid for the survey. Vendor's in a rush as they are expecting a baby so their agent is hurrying us along.

We're keen to buy before we're priced out of the market and have lost out on all previous offers. As such we don't have many options so I think we'd still want the flat even without the landing or the loft but in that case would really prefer this to be reflected in the price.

Prothet_of_Doom

If you OWN the loft, you could convert it at a later date, and add value.

If you don't, it's just an unofficial storage area you can use, because nobody else has access.