Gas fire options with pre cast flue

Peter_Lanky

For 20 years I have been under the impression that I had a class 2 flue in my house. Why? Because I can see a metal chimney on the roof, and the supplier of my first fire told me I had one, so there was no reason to question it. On making recent enquires for a new surround and fire, I am now told that I really have a pre cast flue. My living room wall is flat.

So what's the problem? It appears from what I've been told that I can no longer have a fire like the one I have now which is about 9" deep, but have to have a slimline one of about 4" deep. The problem is that to me, these just look like an artificial fire and are not aesthetically pleasing, so thank you again to the H&S stazi.

With these limitations in mind, do I have any other options to get something that actually looks something like a real fire, than a gas fire pretending to be one? I'm not ruling anything out. I'm not particularly interested that the heat output is just as good, but how it is on the eye.

rustyboy21

A class 2 flue and a precast flue are essentially the same.


What make and model do you have fitted at the moment? What have you been offered? Most of the 'deeper' fires on the market are capable of working on a 5'' diameter flue, which a precast one usually is.


As long as the flue is operating correctly and has no leaks, also as long as the fire can be installed in the chamber, with the correct catchment space at the rear of the fire, then I cannot see what the problem is.


As said above, without knowing what make and model you have installed at present and what you are offering, I cannot give you spot on info. Give me these and I should be able to help you a bit more. I pic of what you have now would also help and one of what is on your roof too, would be useful.

Peter_Lanky

The gas fire I currently have is called a Grate Glow Chameleon Two, installed in 1994. It is 8 3/16" deep. The back wall of the fireplace is approx 5" in front of the (external) wall plasterboard. I have no idea how snugly the fire fits into the space.

I have been told that I now need a slim fire such as a Crystal Diamond (about 4" deep) to meet modern regulations. I will be scrapping the fire surround so will effectively starting from scratch with whatever was embedded in the wall by the builders.

The roof has a 5" metal chimney.

rustyboy21

I would suggest shopping around a few more stores before buying. You may find that you get offered a more realistic looking fire than the one you have seen/offered.


Grateglow don't exist anymore, so the retailer may not have an idea of what they were. Crystals ok, but at the cheaper end of the scale, to the likes of , say Valor Airflame, Magiglo, Gazco etc.


A precast flue is a bit of a nuisance, every one of them is different. some may only be 4'' deep, yours seems to be round 9'' deep.


You can do things with the surround to give you some extra space to fit a fire, but it is dependant on how the flue draws. If it has a strong pull, you may be able to fit a deeper fire, by the use of rebates on the surround and as long as the fires exhaust ports are as far back on the box as possible.


You need a retailer who is willing to come out and survey, even offer to pay for a survey if need be, at least they will know you are genuine and not going to get stuff off the internet after getting their advice. Fitting a slimline fire is an easy option for them, when you may be able to get what you want. You need them to disconnect the old one and do a smoke test and flue draw test. Only issue os you may not get the old one fitted back again, as it may not have the safeguards new fires do.


My favourite fire for realism is in the link below. Not cheap, but looks like a real fire when going and is bloody hot !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGCWdGRtV6I

Peter_Lanky

Thanks. I have looked at this fire and it does look quite nice from the video. I have contacted Valor to let me know local suppliers of this fire, to get more advice on how I could be accommodated.

daveyjp

Plenty of online gas fire suppliers allow you to search by flue type. This will give you an idea, use this info and visit a store to discuss further.

rustyboy21

daveyjp wrote: »

Plenty of online gas fire suppliers allow you to search by flue type. This will give you an idea, use this info and visit a store to discuss further.

A lot of them, only cut and paste the info from the manufacturers brochures, which believe me are only to be used as a selling tool. The mistakes in them are horrendous sometimes. The Online dealers as well only move boxes, they do not know the intricacies of gas fires and where they can fit. You also have the issue of buying something that may or may not fit and all the hassle later if you buy wrong. A retailer will also get the surround made to suit the fire and the individual flue depth requirements, in all, offer a complete service to your requirements.


Go to a fireplace shop OP and buy from them. One manufacturer I deal with states that 84%+ of their callouts are to internet bought product, who have not sold correctly, given proper advice or the installer has not shown them how to use it correctly.


There are lots of products I can say is ok to buy online, something involving installation with gas , is not one of them.

Peter_Lanky

I will definitely be going to a fire specialist - it's not something I would even consider to attempt DIY. I just don't want to be told that something can't be done, when more than likely it can, but they can't be bothered to make the effort to find a solution.

rustyboy21

Peter, if I were in your position, I would really get a Gas safe registered Chimney sweep out. He will take the old fire out, but not put it in again, check your flue and will also tell you the dimensions of your flue for you. You can thn go fully armed to the fireplace shop, knowing you have done all the investigative work up front, the retailer will then know the flue and chamber dimensions and be able to show you fires which are in your options. It will cost about £40, I would say for the sweep, he will flue test it and at least you will know the flue is ok. The retailer you have been to has shown you a slim fire as he knows it will fit in without any issue. You want something special, so he has to work for it. The fire in the video I showed, is about 10'' deep, maybe a little too deep, but it is passed to work on a precast flue, so if you have a good draw, you might be able to accommodate the depth in the surround.


The installer guide can be found here under the following name


Airflame Convector Bauhaus.pdf


http://www.gotogasdocs.co.uk/boiler-manuals/241-wonderfire/621-Wonderfire%20Fires

daveyjp

rustyboy21 wrote: »

A lot of them, only cut and paste the info from the manufacturers brochures, which believe me are only to be used as a selling tool. The mistakes in them are horrendous sometimes. The Online dealers as well only move boxes, they do not know the intricacies of gas fires and where they can fit. You also have the issue of buying something that may or may not fit and all the hassle later if you buy wrong. A retailer will also get the surround made to suit the fire and the individual flue depth requirements, in all, offer a complete service to your requirements.


Go to a fireplace shop OP and buy from them. One manufacturer I deal with states that 84%+ of their callouts are to internet bought product, who have not sold correctly, given proper advice or the installer has not shown them how to use it correctly.


There are lots of products I can say is ok to buy online, something involving installation with gas , is not one of them.

Congratulations on a lengthy post which demonstrates you reacted to the first part of what I wrote and somehow ignored the rest.

The specialist we bought off recently did a survey for £50. They removed the existing installation, capped the gas, smoke tested the flue. The £50 was deducted from the fitting cost.

They also advised on remedies in case of possible spill test failure. It did fail, now fixed with their cheapest remedy. It would have been easy for them to say we needed a whole new flue costing £450. In the end it cost £100 for the alteration required.

rustyboy21

Perhaps my reply was a little hasty, though I am not surprised really. The amount of times in a week, I have consumers calling in, saying they are after a fire, spending sometimes over 2 hours with them, covering all areas of the job, only to be met with , either them getting a smartphone out to google the product, or come in waving pages of websites around, demanding the same price, it does grate on you after a while.
Congratulations on your purchase and the service offered by the retailer. You only hear about the bad experiences, never the good ones. The way the retailer gave you the option of paying a refundable £50 survey, is exactly as I was suggesting to the OP. A lot of us do this as a service .


I think it also didn't help seeing ' supplier' mentioned, not Manufacturer, who are the people who have spent £1000's getting the product designed and passed for use, who know more than anyone the capabilities of the product.


Good luck OP get the feel of the retailer, you will find a decent one who can help.