Help with atos esa assessment points scores

allpine99

Hi can someone please explain what this means on the atos esa points scoring system ;

3. Reaching

a) Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket. 15 pts

b) Cannot raise either arm to top of head as if to put on a hat. 9pts

c) Cannot raise either arm above head height as if to reach for something. 6pts

d) None of the above apply





Does either arm mean both arms or just either one or the other arm ?

I cant move my right arm at all i cam only move it a couple of inches as i have got a full thickness tendon tear in the rotary cuff joint and i have a pectoral tear after having an accident and i am awaiting surgery .


I can move my other arm ok my left arm , so does this mean i get the 15 points as i can definitely not move my right arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket with my right arm , or does it mean that i have to be unable to do it with both arms ?

Thanks

allpine99

Can anyone help ?

mum2one

The way i interept it...

Reaching

a) Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket. 15 pts

As with the other options it all says "either" so if you can do the task with your left arm you wont score any points.

its like if you have an arm - your other arm will learn to adapt to other tasks,

allpine99

It doesn't say one of either arms to do the task , it clearly states either of your arms not one of either thus meaning i cant do the task with either arm .

mum2one

allpine99 wrote: »

It doesn't say one of either arms to do the task , it clearly states either of your arms not one of either thus meaning i cant do the task with either arm .

o your saying both if your arms you cant use........ if you can use one arm you get 0 points, - it says either therefore if it can be done with one of your arms you can do the tasks therefore your get zero points.

allpine99

It does not say neither arm it says either arm ,

They scored me 9 points on b) Cannot raise either arm to top of head as if to put on a hat. 9pts So it does not make sense ,
At the medical i did not perform any tasks with my right arm as i could not move it at all so why award me the 9 points on b) Cannot raise either arm to top of head as if to put on a hat, it makes your theory not make sense .

skintmacflint

ESA Assessors Handbook 2013 mentions bilateral restriction , so sounds from what you've said that you've been awarded 9 points incorrectly as you should have scored 0 points.

killerkev

skintmacflint wrote: »

ESA Assessors Handbook 2013 mentions bilateral restriction , so sounds from what you've said that you've been awarded 9 points incorrectly as you should have scored 0 points.

Agree looks like they have been very lucky to get 9 pts
I failed to get any points for reaching and I can just about put a hat on but my ATOS medical & tribunal said because I can comb my hair (once a day for 30 secs) that is reaching above head height so did not get the 6 pts required . I cannot reach to take things off a shelf. Just goes to show that the whole test is a lottery and is open to different interpretation by different testers and you may be lucky!!!

rogerblack

skintmacflint wrote: »

ESA Assessors Handbook 2013 mentions bilateral restriction , so sounds from what you've said that you've been awarded 9 points incorrectly as you should have scored 0 points.

The assessors handbook is not the law.

http://www.osscsc.gov.uk/Aspx/view.aspx?id=3449
Is a related case on the use of 'either' in the old 'reaching' descriptors.
(it used to say 'with either hand'.)

This means it's strongly arguable that the basically identical argument could be made for 'reaching'.
The reaching descriptor could have been described as:
'Reaching with the arms', with
c) cannot reach above head height.

It's not.
It's described just as:
Reaching
With the descriptor being:

Cannot raise either arm above head height as if to reach for something.

The addition of the words 'raise either arm' in the descriptor must be there for some reason - replacing them with the much shorter 'reach' would have been easy at the time of drafting.
As would have been replacing them with 'raise one arm'.

The subsequent descriptor puts this beyond doubt by being described as 'Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms'.

If you can, for example, pick up a light cardboard box by grabbing it between one arm and your body, you are 'using the upper arm and body'. You don't need both hands to be able to complete this task in the descriptor.
You do for the previous one.

sugarplumfairy

The assessment seems to be generic..one test for all! My partner can't really use his right hand & arm yet as he can lift it up to his head and he's got use of his left hand & arm they decided he was fit to work..they start assessing you before you even get to the assessment centre..they know how far you'll have walked to get there..then make you wait in the waiting area to see if you can sit/stand for a length of time.
I thought it was meant to be done fairer now and be based on an individuals condition not generically and that they were meant to be trained medical people..so why is it still as crap as it was before?!? My partner has had several assessments and he's not noticed a difference. Can anyone offer some advice on how he should prepare for the appeal hearing..any paperwork he needs to take..questions he's likely to be asked etc..