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Gas safety certificate date
Comments
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Look at this from your landlord's situation. He's been trying to arrange this for a while, but - due to circumstances beyond his control - it's come right down to the wire. It is illegal for him to let the place without a valid gas safety certificate.
He could be very heavily fined or go to prison for this. He has a legal right to access the property for safety checks, whether you agree or not, so long as sufficient notice is given.
Right now, you are placing his backside in a very awkward position. He's trying to be a good landlord and help you out, but he's also trying to stay on the right side of the law.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/gas-safety0 -
and your point is?
section 11. 6
In a lease in which the lessor’s repairing covenant is implied there is also implied a covenant by the lessee that the lessor, or any person authorised by him in writing, may at reasonable times of the day and on giving 24 hours’ notice in writing to the occupier, enter the premises comprised in the lease for the purpose of viewing their condition and state of repair.
You can refuse entry, their is no legal right of entry unless in the case of emergency if permission by the tennant is not given.Don't put your trust into an Experian score - it is not a number any bank will ever use & it is generally a waste of money to purchase it. They are also selling you insurance you dont need.0 -
You can refuse entry, their is no legal right of entry unless in the case of emergency if permission by the tennant is not given.
There IS a legal right of entry to comply with repairing obligations, however it would require a Court order to enforce it if access were denied by the T.0 -
There IS a legal right of entry to comply with repairing obligations, however it would require a Court order to enforce it if access were denied by the T.
Which is exactly what a tenant thought they would do to me.
Yes, people have quiet enjoyment of the property – and I wouldn’tnormally expect to be allowed in willy nilly as and when I decided. BUT it is alandlords legal obligation to ensure a gas safety certificate CP12 is completefor the property.
I took the view having tried, tried, and tried again to bookin a safety check, to take the risk of the councils environmental health, forhaving no heating – as we took the decision to turn the gas supply off. I also took the view I would prefer to ague mycase with the councils housing department with a tenant thinking they couldrefuse entry to me, having given due notice three times.
Both points very easily put across once the environmentalhealth officer spoke to me, and agreed with my points.
Prison time, and >£20,000 fines don’t take my fancy.
Your landlord is being good in ensuring he had tried to bookit in, but thought he would make it easier for you and come round himself,having given due notice.
I imagine the minute your CP12 ran out you would also be onhere moaning that your landlord was a rogue acting illegally. Or am I wrong?
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Flashmanchop wrote: »I imagine the minute your CP12 ran out you would also be onhere moaning that your landlord was a rogue acting illegally. Or am I wrong?
There are many such threads around, indeed...
Careful, though before turning off utilities as your tenant could then create trouble on the ground of harassment.0 -
jjlandlord wrote: »There are many such threads around, indeed...
Careful, though before turning off utilities as your tenant could then create trouble on the ground of harassment.
Agree 100% on those grounds. I had weighed up the pro and con of each scenario, and decided that basically, if they were not allowing the CP12 to go ahead, I was not going to be in a position whereby they could be killed by carbon monoxide - hence turning off gas. I felt I could justify my actions, rather than having a huge fine and prison.
My back ground for the thought process - I have actually had a gas leak within a property which had a CP12 so have dealt with the "fall out" of such an event - however, thankfully no one got injured/fell ill.
once council environmental health came she was on my side - and advised the tenant that she should really allow entry.
The price of CP12 are miniscule in the grand scheme of things. a simple note in the diary as to the timings keeps the paperwork side simple.0 -
(Firstly, apologies for the fact that the quoting is a bit messed up, doesn't seem to want to behave lol) Thanks for all the interest in my thread, wasn’t quite expecting to have so many responses! I just want to make it clear, we are not trying to stop the LL having a gas safety check done, and were not stamping our feet and demanding our right to peaceful enjoyment – we are aware how important gas safety is. All I wanted to know really was whether the gas safety certificate and the deadline for it was hotly monitored, to the point where LLs get twitchy if it’s a couple of hours out of date or if there is some flexibility/leeway which would allow us to find a mutually acceptable time which would allow us to be present.
What are you hiding
If nothing, let the LL attend.
I think you are being a little bit paranoid.
There are worst things in life, I had a visitor once, when he was caught he got 18 months.
I’m not hiding anything, surely it’s pretty common for people to want to be present when strangers are entering their home? I don’t know the people who are due to be coming round, for starters I can’t be sure that they’re gonna lock up properly after they leave, secondly our cat always tries to dart out the front door when its opened – we live in a terraced house in a long row with no easy access to the back from the front, hes quite a timid boy and although he has a catflat out to the back garden he doesn’t go very far so if he escaped out the front he would get lost (we can’t lock him in a room for the day as he isn’t allowed by our tenancy agreement to be upstairs and theres nowhere for him to be shut in downstairs, and there isn’t anyone who can take him for the day). Not that any of that really matters I guess, people should have the choice of whether they want to be present or not when strangers are in their home without being judged as ‘paranoid’ or hiding something.
You are not making much sense.
Sorry if I wasn’t very clear, but as far as I am aware it’s not only British Gas who do gas safety checks, all I meant was for us to find another engineer who could accommodate our time frames.
its not heavy as such but right is on the side of the LL
the governing body is the HSE, the advice they provide to LL states:
"Write to the tenant explaining that a safety check is a legalrequirement and that it is for the tenant’s own safety. Give the tenant theopportunity to arrange their own appointment."
you have been given the opportunity, you refused it, the LL is therefore making direct arrangements
full text here
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm
Well we didn’t refuse to take the opportunity to arrange our own appointment, we tried to.
LL is doing all he can to be a good landlord
1) he gave you flexibility to arrange the appointment yourself direct with BG. You ignored the letter
2) When you told him you could not/did not want to let BG in during working hours (we all have to do this for contractors sometimes: tenant or home-owners alike) he offered to take time off himself to do it.
3) Now you are unhappy about him doing this.
What exactly do you want?
* to not have the inspection?
* to have the inspecion out-of-hours (wekend/evening?)
If you are really unhappy about it happening without you being there AND you are unwilling to take time off work to be there, I suggest you offer to pay the landlord whatever extra charge is incurred by an evening/weekend inspection.
We didn’t actually ignore the letter, it looked like junkmail so went in the recycling along with all the other junk mail including 3 additional pieces from British Gas (I know in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t make much difference whether we ignored it or missed it, but your phrasing is quite emotive so I wanted to make that clear). I am not unwilling to take time off of work, but cannot do so with only a days’ notice (again quite emotive phrasing); and what the girl at the Agency said about it being a couple of hours out of date even if done on Friday morning, denotes that any delay of more than a day would be unacceptable? Regarding what we want, I apologise if that was not clear, we want to have the gas safety check done at a time when we would be able to be present, and yes we would be willing to pay extra for this to happen, but I don’t even know if that would be ok to request as I don’t know if the deadlines are so strict that this wouldn’t be possible, hence my original post asking.
It doesn't take very long to do - go home in your lunchtime?
Sadly that isn’t a possibility, where I work is a 2 hour round trip from my home. I appreciate you taking the time to post the suggestion though.
dancingfairy wrote: »To be fair the landlord and agent appear to betrying to fulfill there legal duties (which is more than some you here about on here). The landlord and their agent are probably getting a little stressed about getting it done on time now and trying to protect themselves from any possible comeback.dancingfairy wrote: »
If it really is a problem I would write to them, explain that you understand how important the gas safety check is but that you really aren't happy for them to come without your being there. Are there any days/times you could offer that might work? Could you arrange for a trusted friend/relative to be there? I wouldn't want the landlord and bg to go around whilst I wasn't there but it sounds like it is just a really unfortunate situation in that you didn't see the letter in time.
df
No, I know, I do appreciate the fact that they are concerned with keeping within the law when so many aren’t, and it is a bit of an unfortunate situation. I don’t think writing is going to work, when we are looking at such a short deadline (they are due to come round tomorrow) – or maybe it would? Again it’s difficult to know without knowing how strict the deadlines are. Thanks for your help though.
Look at this from your landlord's situation. He's been trying to arrange this for a while, but - due to circumstances beyond his control - it's come right down to the wire. It is illegal for him to let theplace without a valid gas safety certificate.
He could be very heavily fined or go to prison for this. He has a legalright to access the property for safety checks, whether you agree or not, solong as sufficient notice is given.
Right now, you are placing his backside in a very awkward position. He'strying to be a good landlord and help you out, but he's also trying to stay onthe right side of the law.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/gas/domestic/faqlandlord.htm
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/gas-safety
I do appreciate the fact that he is in an awkward position,and we haven’t help out much by not seeing the letter (although really, maybe he needs to be a bit more organised, it seems like he left it quite late to arrange it to be done). I also know he has a right of entry and we are not trying to deny this to him, we are simply trying to find out if we have enough wiggle room to be able to arrange a date that suits everyone.
It seems like my original post might have been misconstrued,we are not problem tenants trying to cause our poor LL endless issues, we arenot trying to obstruct what needs to be done. I think maybe I opened a bit of acan of worms here, when all I wanted to know was if it was acceptable torequest a slight delay in the check being carried out.0 -
we are simply trying to find out if we have enough wiggle room to be able to arrange a date that suits everyone.
Trouble is, the people he's chosen to provide the certificate - British Gas - don't do them at weekends and evenings. Which, AIUI, is when you want it to be done. Somebody's going to have to compromise here. Either he's going to have to use a different company or you're going to have to allow weekday office hours access. I'd suspect that he has the gas on a maintenance contract from BG, in which case he has very little flexibility short of spending extra money, paying again for a certificate he's already paid for.0 -
Trouble is, the people he's chosen to provide the certificate - British Gas - don't do them at weekends and evenings. Which, AIUI, is when you want it to be done. Somebody's going to have to compromise here. Either he's going to have to use a different company or you're going to have to allow weekday office hours access. I'd suspect that he has the gas on a maintenance contract from BG, in which case he has very little flexibility short of spending extra money, paying again for a certificate he's already paid for.
Ahh this would go someway to explaining the outright hostility we received from the LA when we spoke to them about the date not being suitable.0 -
Ahh this would go someway to explaining the outright hostility we received from the LA when we spoke to them about the date not being suitable.
Er, you said yourself that BG sent your letters to arrange the check, and then told you that they couldn't do evenings and weekends...
Wasn't that clear enough?0
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