LL harassment, no tenancy agreement

coldcazzie

Hi, I'm posting on behalf of a friend who rents her house from her MIL. They don't have a written tenancy agreement, only a verbal agreement to pay a certain amount of rent, which has always been adhered to.

There has been a falling out within the family and as a result they are moving out. They've been served a S21 but were intending on moving out anyway due to ongoing harassment from her MIL and MIL's partner. They reported an incident to the police a couple of weeks ago, which was logged, and then today her MIL's partner came around again and started pounding on the door and demanding entry.

My friend was scared and called the police, who were reasonably helpful but reckoned that because they don't have a written tenancy agreement it doesn't count as official LL harassment. I'm fairly sure that that's not true... can anybody shed some light on where she stands?

Thanks in advance!

theartfullodger

They do have a tenancy agreement, but as it;s verbal it;s hard to prove what is agreed.

That they got an S21 shoes landlord thinks there is a tenancy agreement.

But, say, if all utility bills & council in tenants name, rent paid regularly same amount by bank transfer etc etc good evidence. Please don't tell us paid cash no receipts..

Tenant should call Shelter the housing charity for advice - 0808 800 4444..

Here is there advice on landlord harassment etc etc..
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/private_renting/problems_with_renting/harassment_by_a_landlord

Police are wrong (but they've a tough job).

She should keep logs of all harassment & anythiing else (eg ID numbers of Police who came round).

In her shoes I would INSIST on getting a crime reference number & report of harassment, in writing.

S21s are difficult to get right & chances are this twit of a landlord will get it wrong. See what Shelter think of the wording.

Was there a deposit paid?? Was it protected within 30 days??

An S21 does not end the tenancy nor require the tenant to leave - it merely permits landlord to start court proceedings when it expires (court might say S21 is invalid anyway).

IMHO - never rent to or from relatives: Always get written signed paperwork.

Was there a gas safety certificate?? Does she think MiL is declaring rent to tax man?? (even if making a loss).

Best regards

coldcazzie

She's already in contact with Shelter re the S21; it was written by MIL's solicitor but of course that is still no guarantee that it is worded correctly.

No deposit paid, so no protection done (I already asked that!)

As far as I know, all bills except water are paid by my friend and her hubby, and the water rates are paid by her MIL as part of the rent paid - this was part of their original agreement. Rent paid by SO/bank transfer, not cash, so definitely proof of rent paid.

theartfullodger

Bills paid good - but who's name are they in, tenant or landlord??

Odd that water is paid by landlord: Sounds strange...

Is the rented property attached to property landlord resides in??

princeofpounds

My friend was scared and called the police, who were reasonably helpful but reckoned that because they don't have a written tenancy agreement it doesn't count as official LL harassment. I'm fairly sure that that's not true... can anybody shed some light on where she stands?

Sigh... again the police show they have little knowledge of the law around housing. Believe it or not, it has been known for police officers to actually assist illegal evictions, which is a crime.

http://nearlylegal.co.uk/blog/2010/07/illegal-eviction-and-the-police/

It's probably worth an official complaint to the police, but in the first let's concentrate on her rights.

The fact that she has no written agreement doesn't matter. She does have a tenancy contract. It is more than verbal - minimum standards for tenancies are defined in law ('statutory tenancy').

But in any case, harrassment is harrassment and it matters not whether there is a contract or not.

Recommendations:

- she should keep some documents evidencing her tenancy occupation off the premises, in case this does get legal. You don't want to lose all the evidence if kicked out illegally. Utility bills, bank statements, copies of emails/texts that imply a tenancy exists.

- Keep sound recorder and/or video (perhaps on a mobile) handy so that if they come around again some evidence can be gathered. She should also record her own phone calls.

- she should contact the police (I have to admit I'm not sure which is the most appropriate point of contact, not 999, probably neighbourhood police or a central admin line) and be assertive. It may be necessary to submit a formal complaint in writing, but the real goal is to establish a baseline so that they DO help if anything further occurs.

She needs to underline they
a) got tenancy law wrong - the lack of a written contract means nothing; there is still a perfectly valid tenancy.
b) confused a potentially criminal incident (harrassment and breach of the peace) with civil law
c) refused to assist a victim of a potentially criminal incident.

She should insist she gets an incident number/report reference for the first instance, so that when she phones up again she can point that it is not the first time, and that assistance should be given.

PS, check the nearly legal link, it references some of the relevant legislation, which you might want to inform the police of.

coldcazzie

theartfullodger wrote: »

An S21 does not end the tenancy nor require the tenant to leave - it merely permits landlord to start court proceedings when it expires (court might say S21 is invalid anyway).

She knows that, but she needs to get out of there asap for the sake of her sanity.

IMHO - never rent to or from relatives: Always get written signed paperwork.

I agree, but it's a bit late in this case

Was there a gas safety certificate?? Does she think MiL is declaring rent to tax man?? (even if making a loss).

Pass, I will ask those questions.

She doesn't think that her MIL has permission to let, but is reluctant to dob her in at this stage.

I'm not sure whether any of those things have an influence over the validity of the S21/whether the harassment is technically LL harassment?

coldcazzie

theartfullodger wrote: »

Bills paid good - but who's name are they in, tenant or landlord??

My friend's name.

Is the rented property attached to property landlord resides in??

No.

coldcazzie

Thanks princeofpounds, I'll pass that along

princeofpounds

I'm not sure whether any of those things have an influence over the validity of the S21/whether the harassment is technically LL harassment?

Artfullodger's initial questions were mainly about understanding if there were any further legal levers that could help the tenant's 'negotiating position', and if there was anything obvious that might invalidate the S21.

The harrassment is a totally separate mater. There is no special category of 'landlord harrasment'. If anything there is a particular penalty for it if it amounts to an illegal eviction (which can include various forms of forcing an eviction by bullying, not just physically changing the locks on a tenant).

theartfullodger

coldcazzie wrote: »

...
...
I'm not sure whether any of those things have an influence over the validity of the S21/

No, but they might be ammunition to use against LL to persuade them to behave etc..

whether the harassment is technically LL harassment?

Yes it is Housing Act 1988 S29(2) (which modifies Protection from Harassment 1977) see
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/29
says..

the landlord of a residential occupier or an agent of the landlord shall be guilty of an offence if—

(a)he does acts likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential occupier or members of his household, or

That doesn't just mean "letting agent" it means anyone acting on their behalf such as hubbie bashing on doors & shouting: We do have standards in Britain for g*wds sake...

Cheers!

jjlandlord

Well, there is harassment in general, which is illegal as per the Protection from Harassment Act 1997. And there is specific harassment by a landlord, as defined and made illegal by the Protection from Eviction Act 1977.

OP said that tenant intended to leave to I think the point of arguing too much about that s.21 notice...

Clearly they should indeed focus on moving.