Transfer of Equity?

pollypenny

The OP hasn't shown himself since he tried to patronise me. Perhaps he was surprised that the rest of us are not trying to con other tax payers. :cool:

Mr_Toad

Toddy_Senior wrote: »

Hi Polly, having worked hard for the past 44 years until my retirement last December, I estimate that my income tax and national insurance contributions during that period were in excess of £300,000. I've hardly used the NHS and haven't been to jail so, to date, I don't believe you've helped me one iota. I'm not looking for people like you to pay for my potential care home costs, I'm simply dissatisfied with successive governments which take so much and give so little. Are you, for example, happy with a government which cuts police, army and NHS numbers by 20% but fails to do the same with its MP's and Lords? Having bought our house and paid off all our debts, why can't my wife and I pass on to our son a reasonable sum of money (£50,000, say)? I have nothing against care homes. My mum recently died in a very nice care home, having suffered from demetia for the past 12 years. We visited her each week but her fees were paid entirely by the local council because my mum and dad lived in a council house for the whole of their married life (56 years). My wife and I have saved hard to buy our own house but in future we may have to use it to pay for potential care home fees instead of being able to help our only son who, by the way, expects nothing from us. You of course feel this is entirely right but I find that your submissive acceptance of the way things are is disappointing. Do something useful Polly and put the kettle on.............!

One wonders why you bothered to work and pay taxes at all if you think that the 'grasping' Govt. owes you a living or care?

Governments that take so much and give so little. How very selective of you. You seem to be ignoring the fact that we live in a free, democratic country.

A country that educated you and you son, a country that takes care of your health and that of your mother. Surely any grasping government worth its salt would have left your mother to fend for herself or die trying but no, despite her having no assets they took her in and cared for her. They didn't care that she might not have made a significant contribution over the years in taxes, they didn't care that she might have had money but spent it on herself, no they took her in anyway.

And you've had nothing from grasping governments over the years. :rotfl:

You haven't used our countries infrastructure, its roads and railways, libraries, parks, the list goes on. People like to complain, a favourite is the state of the roads and usually includes an 'I pay my road tax' comment. However, when compared to some countries our roads are, for the most part, excellent but I take it from your comment that you don't use them or anything else paid for by your own personal savings that the tax man is looking after for you.

You talk about Polly's submissive acceptance, what a stupid, condescending, insulting and poorly informed thing to say. It isn't submissive acceptance, it's the acceptance of someone who realises that to live in a free, democratic country we have to pay taxes and that those who can take care of themselves should so that the grasping Govt. can take care of those who can't. People like your mother.

You are a real credit to any civilised society.

thorsoak

Toddy_Senior wrote: »

Hi Polly, having worked hard for the past 44 years until my retirement last December, I estimate that my income tax and national insurance contributions during that period were in excess of £300,000. I've hardly used the NHS and haven't been to jail so, to date, I don't believe you've helped me one iota. I'm not looking for people like you to pay for my potential care home costs, I'm simply dissatisfied with successive governments which take so much and give so little. Are you, for example, happy with a government which cuts police, army and NHS numbers by 20% but fails to do the same with its MP's and Lords? Having bought our house and paid off all our debts, why can't my wife and I pass on to our son a reasonable sum of money (£50,000, say)? I have nothing against care homes. My mum recently died in a very nice care home, having suffered from demetia for the past 12 years. We visited her each week but her fees were paid entirely by the local council because my mum and dad lived in a council house for the whole of their married life (56 years). My wife and I have saved hard to buy our own house but in future we may have to use it to pay for potential care home fees instead of being able to help our only son who, by the way, expects nothing from us. You of course feel this is entirely right but I find that your submissive acceptance of the way things are is disappointing. Do something useful Polly and put the kettle on.............!

....and you say you have had nothing from the government? If "the government" hadn't looked after your mum for 12 years with dementia - you would have had to! So don't say that you've paid in and not received any benefits.

PS: how much were your actual NI contributions - have you actually added them up?

All I can say is - give your house to your son so that you will be depriving yourself of capital, and then, if your son is in any way as grasping as you appear to be - how will you manage then?

RustyPots

I think you need to see how your son feels about this.
I would never want to see my parents in any state-funded care so that I could have some money once they'd gone. That, in my opinion, would be greedy and grasping.

Whilst I understand you feel you've paid in enough to warrant something back, I'm sure you'd prefer to actually receive the best care possible in your hour of need

Mr_Toad

RustyPots wrote: »

I think you need to see how your son feels about this.
I would never want to see my parents in any state-funded care so that I could have some money once they'd gone. That, in my opinion, would be greedy and grasping.

Whilst I understand you feel you've paid in enough to warrant something back, I'm sure you'd prefer to actually receive the best care possible in your hour of need

I'm sure there are bad care homes, some used by the state but my experience is somewhat different.

Both my parents had/have dementia. Being from an older generation they were somewhat old fashioned in their financial arrangements.

Most of the money was in my fathers name. When he had to go into care he was self funding and due to those old fashioned financial arrangements left mum with no financial backup to speak of.

The care home he went into was a lovely place, well run with plenty of staff and excellent food. If you were there at meal times they invited you to eat and the food was really nice.

Once Dad's money ran out the grasping government took over his funding and he received exactly the same level of care that he had been paying for.

When it came time for Mum to go into care there was no money to speak of so she was funded by the government. She went into a different care home, for assessment of needs, a care home that was every bit as nice and as well run, also with fantastic staffing levels, as the one Dad was in.

After assessing her needs the grasping government decided that as soon as there was a vacancy at Dad's care home Mum should be transferred there so they could be together, this despite the fact that they didn't recognise each other!

Unfortunately the vacancy was caused by the death of my father so it was agreed that rather than move Mum, and risk upsetting her as she was now settled, she would remain at the original home.

Not all state funded care homes are dreadful and I have witnessed first hand that both self funded and state funded care is exactly the same.

I'm not naive enough to think this applies for everyone in care but I can only comment on what I know.

I went to visit Mum this morning and she wasn't in, one of the staff had taken her for a walk to a nearby park as it was such a nice morning. She couldn't be in safer, more caring hands.

Person_one

Mr_Toad wrote: »

Not all state funded care homes are dreadful and I have witnessed first hand that both self funded and state funded care is exactly the same.

I'm not naive enough to think this applies for everyone in care but I can only comment on what I know.

I think the main benefit you get by self funding (at least initially) is that you get to choose who provides your care. In an area where all the care homes are equally fantastic that doesn't matter so much, but I don't think that area exists!

troubleinparadise

Misread Mr Toad for OP Toddy Senior....

Removed my post (but its quoted later anyway!)

thorsoak

Mr_Toad wrote: »

I'm sure there are bad care homes, some used by the state but my experience is somewhat different.

Both my parents had/have dementia. Being from an older generation they were somewhat old fashioned in their financial arrangements.

Most of the money was in my fathers name. When he had to go into care he was self funding and due to those old fashioned financial arrangements left mum with no financial backup to speak of.

The care home he went into was a lovely place, well run with plenty of staff and excellent food. If you were there at meal times they invited you to eat and the food was really nice.

Once Dad's money ran out the grasping government took over his funding and he received exactly the same level of care that he had been paying for.

When it came time for Mum to go into care there was no money to speak of so she was funded by the government. She went into a different care home, for assessment of needs, a care home that was every bit as nice and as well run, also with fantastic staffing levels, as the one Dad was in.

After assessing her needs the grasping government decided that as soon as there was a vacancy at Dad's care home Mum should be transferred there so they could be together, this despite the fact that they didn't recognise each other!

Unfortunately the vacancy was caused by the death of my father so it was agreed that rather than move Mum, and risk upsetting her as she was now settled, she would remain at the original home.

Not all state funded care homes are dreadful and I have witnessed first hand that both self funded and state funded care is exactly the same.

I'm not naive enough to think this applies for everyone in care but I can only comment on what I know.

I went to visit Mum this morning and she wasn't in, one of the staff had taken her for a walk to a nearby park as it was such a nice morning. She couldn't be in safer, more caring hands.

So, your family has benefited TWICE from the "grasping government" - not taking into account the help that you would have been given when your son was born and when he was educated .......

If you do hand over ownership of your assets to your son, you will be deemed to have "deliberately deprived yourself of assets" - and will therefore be ineligible for government intervention in your care needs. Are you confident that your son will then hand your money back to you?

Mojisola

Toddy_Senior wrote: »

would the greedy grasping government (of either political party!) be limited to taking a smaller share of the equity from our house, for care home fees.

Of course, even if you did end up paying for care, you wouldn't be paying the greedy grasping government - you would be paying the company who provides the service.

If you were at home, you would pay utilities, food, phone and BB, repairs and maintenance, etc.

If you live in a care home, you will have to pay your share of those bills and, in addition, 24 hour carers on duty.

Mr_Toad

troubleinparadise wrote: »

Dear Mr Toad,

It would appear that through your parents' sad stories with dementia (and I have been there too) you are already well versed with self and state funding.

And are probably already very cognisant of the rules and regs with regard to tenancy in common, joint bank accounts, deprivation of assets, etc etc.

Given your first-hand experience, I'm not too sure why you asked your question in the first place. Are you lobbying yourself to change the funding rules, given your criticism of another poster for their, in your eyes, submissive stance?

Therefore just gift your son the money now, whilst you are in good health. You already know the vulnerable position gifting him your house, or a part share in it, would leave you in. Sell up, rent, and live off the proceeds as extravagantly or frugally as you like. You already know that your needs will be taken care of, and I'm glad that for your mother it is proving to be as good quality as your father's self-funding time was.

Again as you already know, the planned change in funding rules will have come into play before too long should you be unfortunate enough to need that, which I hope will not be the case.

You seem to be confusing me with the original poster.