Gaps in season tickets but allowed to travel

InsideInsurance

I've wondered this before but never bothered posting about it or doing anything about it.

I get a monthly season ticket inc London Travelcard which lasts, as its name suggests 1 month. I can "renew" it up to 7 days before the old one ends and get given a new one which in the start date simply says "renewal" and starts working in the barriers immediately.

Now my Feb ticket was to expire on the 28th Feb, I dont need to go into London at the weekend I renewed my ticket last night but to commence from Monday (3rd) rather than the 1st.

So now have a new monthly ticket with a start date of Renewal, End date of 2nd April and as confirmed this morning it works in the barriers already.

Technically I've not paid for any ticket over this weekend but would it not work? I think I did it once before similarly and ended up travelling at the weekend and it did work despite it having not being paid for. Is there any actual risk of doing this?

Effectively this means a monthly ticket can be a month + 6-7 days if you always forward date them no?

yorkie2

The risk is being prosecuted, and found guilty in Court, resulting in a criminal record and incurring costs and fines potentially into 4-figures.

There are plenty of threads on forums, where people have been caught using Seasons outside their validity and have been liable to prosecution. There's a dedicated forum for railway ticketing disputes, but I am not allowed to link to it under MSE rules. A read of some of them will soon dispel any thoughts you may have had, I'm sure..!

agrinnall

By the way yorkie, what rule is it that prevents you from linking to the other forum? Nobody seems to worry about mentioning or even providing a link to pepipoo. Or is it because it's your forum?

wealdroam

InsideInsurance wrote: »

I get a monthly season ticket inc London Travelcard which lasts, as its name suggests 1 month.

Why not routinely buy a season ticket valid for just under five weeks, starting on a Monday and ending on a Friday nearly five weeks later?

From National Rail Enquiries:

How long can a Season Ticket be valid for?

You can buy a season ticket for seven days or any period between one month and a year:

Seven Days
You can use the ticket at any time during any seven day period for travel between the points shown on the ticket - the more you travel, the more you save!

A month
Monthly Season Tickets offer great savings compared to buying four individual Seven Day season tickets.

Over one month
Season Tickets can also be purchased for any duration between one month and one year.

And when you take annual holidays etc, buy a five week or more ticket to finish the day before your holidays start.

cookie365

I've heard of local bus operators extending monthly or longer tickets up to the first monday after expiry. Never traincos though.

yorkie2

agrinnall wrote: »

By the way yorkie, what rule is it that prevents you from linking to the other forum? Nobody seems to worry about mentioning or even providing a link to pepipoo. Or is it because it's your forum?

On 18 July 2013, I received a PM from another member advising me I was not permitted, under this rule, to post a web address belonging to a site that I or a friend am involved with (which is a lot of sites). I sent a request for permission last Summer; I'll send another one now in case my request got lost. But without that permission I can't link to various sites as I don't want to break the rules.

wealdroam wrote: »

Why not routinely buy a season ticket valid for just under five weeks, starting on a Monday and ending on a Friday nearly five weeks later?

Indeed. Carefully ensuring the Season starts/finishes on suitable working days taking into account annual leave, bank holidays, weekends etc is totally legitimate.

A ticket office should also issue a Season on a Friday afternoon/evening to commence the following Monday, though some ticket offices may need reminding of that fact (e.g. King's Cross needed reminding).

InsideInsurance

yorkie2 wrote: »

The risk is being prosecuted, and found guilty in Court, resulting in a criminal record and incurring costs and fines potentially into 4-figures.

There are plenty of threads on forums, where people have been caught using Seasons outside their validity and have been liable to prosecution.

How is it technically outside of its validity? The ticket itself doesnt have a start date on it, just says "renewal" in the start date box. Ticket also works through all barriers.

wealdroam wrote:

Why not routinely buy a season ticket valid for just under five weeks, starting on a Monday and ending on a Friday nearly five weeks later?

A monthly ticket is fine and strikes the right balance between cost and my level of certainty of where I'll be working.

I was just wondering what stops you creating the theoretical break when renewing when nothing on the ticket itself shows it isnt valid for that break and it does indeed work during that break beyond the moral aspect

yorkie2

InsideInsurance wrote: »

A monthly ticket is fine and strikes the right balance between cost and my level of certainty of where I'll be working.

It clearly doesn't, as you are trying to get a few extra days at no cost.

The only logical reason for rejecting wealdroam's suggestion is if you work weekends (or regularly make leisure journeys at weekends using your season ticket)

InsideInsurance wrote: »

I was just wondering what stops you creating the theoretical break when renewing when nothing on the ticket itself shows it isnt valid for that break and it does indeed work during that break beyond the moral aspect

They can work out how long it's valid for, believe me!

If you are suspected to have been doing this on a regular basis, then it could cost you a substantial sum (potentially 4 figures) as well as a criminal record.

InsideInsurance

yorkie2 wrote: »

It clearly doesn't, as you are trying to get a few extra days at no cost.

The only logical reason for rejecting wealdroam's suggestion is if you work weekends (or regularly make leisure journeys at weekends using your season ticket)

I am curious about it rather than trying to do it.

That said for unintended reasons it has happened a couple of times in my 10 years of commuting that I've not intended to travel over a weekend or bankholiday etc and so renewed from the Monday/Tuesday but then had to travel on the weekend (eg the other week my flight was cancelled so ended up landing on Saturday rather than Friday). It was only afterwards that I thought about it and realised that technically my ticket wasnt valid despite it being inspected and having gone through barriers.

maniacmartin

I believe your renewal has an issuing error. A ticket marked renewal should have continuous validity from where the old one ends, with no weekend gap. If you are renewing a few days in advance, you should be issued a new ticket (with same photocard number), with a start date.

If there is no start date, then I would say the ticket is valid.

InsideInsurance

maniacmartin wrote: »

I believe your renewal has an issuing error. A ticket marked renewal should have continuous validity from where the old one ends, with no weekend gap. If you are renewing a few days in advance, you should be issued a new ticket (with same photocard number), with a start date.

If there is no start date, then I would say the ticket is valid.

There is never a start date, it always just says renewal.

As I have frequent day/ overnight trips away with work its fairly common for me not to want the tickets to be continuous. As per previous post, no intent to travel, most the time not in the country to travel even if I wanted to, was just wondering what the safeguards are to stop the abuse as the couple of times where plans have changed I've used the ticket without thinking without problems.