Lowell's & Lloyds TSB bank charges!!! PLEASE HELP! :(

MrSilk

Hi Guys,

I apologise for the long post however i want to get as much info out as possible

My parents opened up a Lloyds TSB account for me when I was 12 years old, they put money away each week and when I was 16 they gave me the card, I spent half and saved the other. fast forward to when I turned 18, Lloyds upgraded my account and offered me a £200 overdraft.

Anywho, I got into a spiral of OD interest which resulted in the account being passed onto Lowell's in 2009 (total of £1797.99!!). June last year I received a dodgy looking letter in the same envelope as a letter from Lowell's, the letter from lloyds stated that they have sold the debt on (4 years after I defaulted) to Llowell's and that payment should be made as soon as possible, it even has Lowell's address and phone number on the letter, along with low resolution copied lloyds logos :rotfl:.

I didn't reply to this letter until in December they called me at work (Grr).. and I asked them to provide statements for the account to show how so much could be owed, to which they said we can offer a settlement figure of £1200, I said no and that I wouldn't be paying (Yes I know, maybe a admitted to the debt a little bit?!), they said OK, we will contact Lloyds to get the statements.

Fast forward to today, and i get a letter from Lowell's along with 12 pages of statements, which said PAGE 72 - 84. and showed a total amount of £594.14 in OD charges and bank charges. However, Llowell said in the letter that the debt was sold to them in 2009 when the statement showed a balance of £0.00, however, in their letter sent in December said that the debt had been sold to them in Dec 2009, which is what Lloyds letter stated which was included with the letter from Llowell's.

They say that because they've provided the INCOMPLETE statements that I now legally have to pay them the £1797.99 within 7 days, or set up a payment plan.

To be honest, I'd rather cut off my left leg than pay them a penny towards this, but I don't know what I should do next?

Anyone have any ideas? If there is anything missing or not made clear please let me know and I'll try and explain better!!

Thank you

MrSilk

Also, Lloyds satisfied the account on my Equifax file on 31/07/2013 - and no other entries have been added with regards to the account. Does not show up on CallCredit, haven't checked Experian though

MrSilk

Anyone?

rizla_king

SAR Lloyds to find out exactly when was owed when it was really sold.

Anything that Lowells added on after is probably invalid.

FireWyrm

Right, one step at a time then.

MrSilk wrote: »

Hi Guys,


My parents opened up a Lloyds TSB account for me when I was 12 years old, they put money away each week and when I was 16 they gave me the card, I spent half and saved the other. fast forward to when I turned 18, Lloyds upgraded my account and offered me a £200 overdraft.

How was this 'upgrade' presented to you? Did you enter into this willingly, or could it be construed as mis-selling in that you neither wanted nor understood what they were doing?

MrSilk wrote: »

Anywho, I got into a spiral of OD interest which resulted in the account being passed onto Lowell's in 2009 (total of £1797.99!!).

What was the total in 2009?

MrSilk wrote: »

June last year I received a dodgy looking letter in the same envelope as a letter from Lowell's, the letter from lloyds stated that they have sold the debt on (4 years after I defaulted) to Llowell's and that payment should be made as soon as possible, it even has Lowell's address and phone number on the letter, along with low resolution copied lloyds logos :rotfl:.

Yeah, ok. Dodgy letter is 'fine(ish), but we need more information here. The letter says you owe how much? Is it reasonably accurate?

MrSilk wrote: »

I didn't reply to this letter until in December they called me at work (Grr).. and I asked them to provide statements for the account to show how so much could be owed, to which they said we can offer a settlement figure of £1200,

generally a good sign that they are on shakey ground and they know it.

MrSilk wrote: »

I said no and that I wouldn't be paying (Yes I know, maybe a admitted to the debt a little bit?!),

You didnt 'admit' anything of the sort. You asked for proof to back up their claim - exactly what you should have done and are entitled to. 'Admission' can only be in writing (a clear acknowledgement along the lines of 'it's a fair cop guv, I'll pay yous what yous asked like') or a payment to the account. Neither of which you seem to have done.

MrSilk wrote: »

they said OK, we will contact Lloyds to get the statements.

Right. Exactly what THEY should have done.

MrSilk wrote: »

Fast forward to today, and i get a letter from Lowell's along with 12 pages of statements, which said PAGE 72 - 84.

Where are pages 1 - 72?

MrSilk wrote: »

and showed a total amount of £594.14 in OD charges and bank charges.

Ah ha! So, does the £594 + what you owed LLoyds when you defaulted add up to £1700? If not, what other 'charges' have been added? Did Lowel add them?

MrSilk wrote: »

However, Llowell said in the letter that the debt was sold to them in 2009 when the statement showed a balance of £0.00,

Did it really? Interesting...more information please. How is this information displayed? So, what do you owe LLoyds as far as you are concerned?

MrSilk wrote: »

however, in their letter sent in December said that the debt had been sold to them in Dec 2009, which is what Lloyds letter stated which was included with the letter from Llowell's.

Nope, dont get it. Clearer explanation please.

MrSilk wrote: »

They say that because they've provided the INCOMPLETE statements

They say 'incomplete'?

MrSilk wrote: »

that I now legally have to pay them the £1797.99 within 7 days, or set up a payment plan.

You dont have to pay them within 7 days at all. There is little they can do about it. However, we need to get to the bottom of who owes what to whom and it doesnt appear like that at all.

So, how much is what you really owe Lloyds, how much is 'overdraft interest and fees' and how much is whatever Lowells have added on?

MrSilk wrote: »

To be honest, I'd rather cut off my left leg than pay them a penny towards this, but I don't know what I should do next?

It comes down to whether you legitimately owe this or not. I'd rather not pay my mortgage, but I do owe them the money, they have a right to request it and get nasty if I dont pay them.

MrSilk wrote: »

Anyone have any ideas? If there is anything missing or not made clear please let me know and I'll try and explain better!!

Questions above.

Also, Riz just beat me to it, but a Subject Access Request to Lloyds is also required to get to the bottom of this. Can you speak to someone at lloyds and see what they can do to sort this out?

MrSilk

Thank you both for your replies, below I've answered the questions

FireWyrm wrote: »

Right, one step at a time then.



How was this 'upgrade' presented to you? Did you enter into this willingly, or could it be construed as mis-selling in that you neither wanted nor understood what they were doing?

I didn't sign anything (not that I can remember) to agree to have it upgraded, I asked them for a chip and pin card in place of the ATM card, and they sent it out. I must say that they also gave me a credit card just after my 18th birthday with the limit of £1,500, which I paid off last year:T (through Mackenzie Hall)



What was the total in 2009?

The total on the statement sent from by lowell's by Lloyds stated the closing balance of the account was £1797.99, then it said the balance was £0, as I presume they wrote the debt off, and probably claimed for the loss.



Yeah, ok. Dodgy letter is 'fine(ish), but we need more information here. The letter says you owe how much? Is it reasonably accurate?

The letter I got last year what was supposedly from Lloyds said that they sold a balance of £1797.99 to Lowells in 2013, however now Lowell's are saying it was sold to them in 2009 when Lloyds wrote it off, baring in mind from 2010 - 2013 I'd heard nothing about the debt from anyone. I can't remember which DCA had the debt before though .



generally a good sign that they are on shakey ground and they know it.

They said if I start a payment plan then they will reduce it, but I told them no as I want statements.



You didnt 'admit' anything of the sort. You asked for proof to back up their claim - exactly what you should have done and are entitled to. 'Admission' can only be in writing (a clear acknowledgement along the lines of 'it's a fair cop guv, I'll pay yous what yous asked like') or a payment to the account. Neither of which you seem to have done.

Ah that's good to know, I was going to write them a letter last night but I thought no, because I need to get all the information together first.



Right. Exactly what THEY should have done.

Yes, they told me that the account was hold old while Lloyds send them the statements.


Where are pages 1 - 72?

Exactly, Lloyds didn't provide there, or if they did, Lowell's didn't pass them on.



Ah ha! So, does the £594 + what you owed LLoyds when you defaulted add up to £1700? If not, what other 'charges' have been added? Did Lowel add them?

No, I had an overdraft of circa £500 MAX, it was back in 2008 so I can't really remember , so the charges in my mind have to be around £1200, which I suspect would show up on pages 1 - 72 of my statements from Lloyds.



Did it really? Interesting...more information please. How is this information displayed? So, what do you owe LLoyds as far as you are concerned?

On the statements from Lloyds, it stated that the account was closed and that £1797.99 was paid into the account. however Lowell's are saying the reason it stated £0 balance was because they bought it, however; They said that it was closed after Lloyds internal debt recovery department had no joy in recovering the money, but interest was still being applied up until the day it was closed, is this right?



Nope, dont get it. Clearer explanation please.

The letter I got last year from 'Lloyd's' said the account was sold to Lowell's in 2013, however in the letter Lowell's sent me yesterday, they say Lloyds sold it to them back in 2009 after the account was closed!!! - Also, Along with the Lloyds letter i received last year, Lowell's themselves confirmed that they had bought the best in 2013, and not in 2009.


They say 'incomplete'?

No I say Incomplete (Sorry!), they are saying because now they've provided the requested statements I have to now legally pay the balance of £1979.99

You dont have to pay them within 7 days at all. There is little they can do about it. However, we need to get to the bottom of who owes what to whom and it doesnt appear like that at all.

Would I be able to take them to small claims?

So, how much is what you really owe Lloyds, how much is 'overdraft interest and fees' and how much is whatever Lowells have added on?

From the statements I have from them, £500+ is in fee's and charges, I owe them £500 max, if that.


It comes down to whether you legitimately owe this or not. I'd rather not pay my mortgage, but I do owe them the money, they have a right to request it and get nasty if I dont pay them.

That's true, Ahhh I'm thinking I should just pay £100 a month to get them off my back, of course, this is probably what they want


Questions above.

Also, Riz just beat me to it, but a Subject Access Request to Lloyds is also required to get to the bottom of this. Can you speak to someone at lloyds and see what they can do to sort this out?

FireWyrm

Okey dokey.

It certainly seems as though you owe some money, but what is in dispute here is how much.

One step at a time again then.

1) The balance says zero because they (lloyds) wrote it off and sold it to Lowell. You do seem to owe some money however....

2) Although Lloyds were perfectly within their rights to continue to charge penalty fees and interest back in 2009 up until it was closed and sold, times have changed though and it is now somewhat politically incorrect to charge extortionate amounts. Plus, you make no mention of whether Lloyds actually attempted to get in touch with you and whether you were ever given a chance to solve the situation. So, it is entirely possible you owe them the cost of the overdraft to it's maximum limit (and I'm pretty sure you acknowledge this too) but then to add additional fees and charges to inflate the debt getting on for 4 times is a bit naughty.

3) Adding to this the issue of apparently being upgraded to an account you didnt want, with credit you didnt want or need, is now a no-no and they know it.

All this rather adds up to a charge of mis-selling coupled with naivety on your part and not a little bit of venality on the part of lloyds.

I might be inclined to proceed thus :

1) letter to Lowell telling them that this account is in dispute - get lost.
2) A letter to Lloyds pointing out the following :
a) you werent consulted on the upgrade and it was probably done more or less behind your back. You asked for an ATM card and got a credit card and an overdraft and probably bank fees as well.
b) you have never been contacted about the rising charges (or have you)
c) you had no opportunity to rectify it
d) charges applied are disproportionate to say the least and have inflated the overall debt to £1700
e) You are prepared to (as a good will gesture :-) ) pay the outstanding debt at the time (the overdraft) to the tune of £500 in FULL AND FINAL settlement and you'll call it a day if they call off Lowell.

MrSilk

FireWyrm wrote: »

Okey dokey.

It certainly seems as though you owe some money, but what is in dispute here is how much.

One step at a time again then.

1) The balance says zero because they (lloyds) wrote it off and sold it to Lowell. You do seem to owe some money however....
Yes, I owe whatever amount took me overdrawn.. minus the fee's and charges!

2) Although Lloyds were perfectly within their rights to continue to charge penalty fees and interest back in 2009 up until it was closed and sold, times have changed though and it is now somewhat politically incorrect to charge extortionate amounts. Plus, you make no mention of whether Lloyds actually attempted to get in touch with you and whether you were ever given a chance to solve the situation. So, it is entirely possible you owe them the cost of the overdraft to it's maximum limit (and I'm pretty sure you acknowledge this too) but then to add additional fees and charges to inflate the debt getting on for 4 times is a bit naughty.

3) Adding to this the issue of apparently being upgraded to an account you didnt want, with credit you didnt want or need, is now a no-no and they know it.

All this rather adds up to a charge of mis-selling coupled with naivety on your part and not a little bit of venality on the part of lloyds.

I might be inclined to proceed thus :

1) letter to Lowell telling them that this account is in dispute - get lost.
They see it as they have sent the requested statements and I am not to pay, would they palce the account back into dispute again?
2) A letter to Lloyds pointing out the following :
a) you werent consulted on the upgrade and it was probably done more or less behind your back. You asked for an ATM card and got a credit card and an overdraft and probably bank fees as well.
I had an ATM card since it was opend, until I was 18, when I asked for a Debit Card, and coming to think of it; I never actually applied for an overdraft, on the statements, it looks as though the overdraft was extended and extended to the amount of the fee's. I think they applied the overdraft as the account had trailing monthly fee's. I'm in such a mess as I can't remember anything about the account, however' if Lloyds gave me full statements from when the account started going overdrawn, then I'd have the crystal clear picture.
b) you have never been contacted about the rising charges (or have you)
From memory, I received two letters from Lloyds debt recovery department asking for payment, and I've always known the amount to be £1797.99
c) you had no opportunity to rectify it
It all happened pretty quick if I'm honest, from the time it went overdrawn to the time they sold it. Within a month and a half to two months. I'd have thought they'd have gone for a CCJ? (this is what I'm worried about with Lowell's, I don't want another CCJ )
d) charges applied are disproportionate to say the least and have inflated the overall debt to £1700
When I spoke to Lowell's last year, they said they could offer a discount if I set up a payment plan there and then, but I still disputed the amount, and they didn't sound like they knew they could go further, legally anyway; with the collection of the full amount.
e) You are prepared to (as a good will gesture :-) ) pay the outstanding debt at the time (the overdraft) to the tune of £500 in FULL AND FINAL settlement and you'll call it a day if they call off Lowell.
Would Lloyds tell me to speak to Lowell?, the default for the account was marked satisfied in Dec 2013 by Lloyds, and no other default has been placed by Lowell's, would Lowell's likely accept full payment of £500? - They pay a reported 1p to the £1 (£170ish)

Thank you for your response, my replies are above :T

FireWyrm

Well, it really is up to you.

My first port of call would be Lloyds pointing out the above points...miss-selling etc. If they say 'get lost' even after you mentioned all the bad press you are about to heap on them with OFT, FSA and anyone else, then I guess you have no other course of action than negotiation with Lowells. They should put your account back into dispute if you tell them to and continue to disavow it for now.

The problem is, if you offer a F&F to Lowell, not only have you discounted Lloyds helping you, your letter counts as 'acknowledgement' so tread carefully.

It does sound (from what you have said) as though Lowells will accept a lower amount so I would call this 'Plan B' for now. I think you'll have more luck twisting Lloyds' arm over the mis-selling thing and how they jacked up the fees and costs and left you twisting in the wind.

MrSilk

FireWyrm wrote: »

Well, it really is up to you.

My first port of call would be Lloyds pointing out the above points...miss-selling etc. If they say 'get lost' even after you mentioned all the bad press you are about to heap on them with OFT, FSA and anyone else, then I guess you have no other course of action than negotiation with Lowells. They should put your account back into dispute if you tell them to and continue to disavow it for now.

The problem is, if you offer a F&F to Lowell, not only have you discounted Lloyds helping you, your letter counts as 'acknowledgement' so tread carefully.

It does sound (from what you have said) as though Lowells will accept a lower amount so I would call this 'Plan B' for now. I think you'll have more luck twisting Lloyds' arm over the mis-selling thing and how they jacked up the fees and costs and left you twisting in the wind.

I agree, before i got the statements I didn't even know what the account number and sort-code where, so they've helped me a little.

I'll go straight to Lloyds and dispute the charges and the way that they handled the account.

I'll write a letter next week and send it off, and I'll send a letter (unsigned) to Lowell's stating that I am currently disputing the amount with Lloyds directly.

MrSilk

**UPDATE**

I called Lowell asking for them to request the rest of the statements from Lloyds, they said they shall do this and get int ouch with me in writing, they said it could take anywhere between a week and six weeks.

4 days later I received a letter from Lowell saying that they contact Lloyds and they where advised that I'd need to contact Lloyds directly to ask for these. Why would they send out part of the statements when I requested them via Lowell, and now that I want the rest, they are telling Lowell that I need to contact their collections department directly?

Lowell have placed the account on hold for 28 days. Should I write to Lloyds directly, or just visit one of their branches? Thanks!