Childcare Vouchers whilst on Maternity Leave

Icequeen99

Reason123 wrote: »

Thanks IQ - you have been a great help so far!


The plot thickens and believe they have us over a barrel?


Although my partner is in a 'salary sacrifice' scheme and on her pay slip it reads 'salary sacrifice' - her company now says she does not have a salary sacrifice contact with them. She has a salary sacrifice contract with the 'Computershare voucher services'?
[FONT=Calibri,sans-serif]http://www.computersharevoucherservices.com/Pages/default.aspx[/FONT]

Her company says they simply work to the instructions and terms and conditions Computershare set.


So if the contract is not with her employer - we are doomed right?

Surely they are just a childcare voucher company. She can't have a contract with them to sacrifice her salary unless she is paid her salary by them?

At the point she decided to take the childcare vouchers - her company must have changed her contract - so instead of getting say £20,000 paid she now gets £18,000 + £2,000 in vouchers making the £20,000.

You can only sacrifice your salary from the person who pays your salary - your employer.

Very odd.

I would suggest you phone ACAS for advice.

IQ

Reason123

Hi IQ


They are indeed just childcare voucher company. And I agree that your employer must only able to sacrifice your salary.


I have called ACAS but got little to no help..
Their advice was to either take the company to employment tribunal or get legal advice from our home contents insurance company!?

Icequeen99

Reason123 wrote: »

Hi IQ


They are indeed just childcare voucher company. And I agree that your employer must only able to sacrifice your salary.


I have called ACAS but got little to no help..
Their advice was to either take the company to employment tribunal or get legal advice from our home contents insurance company!?

That's a shame, i always found them to be helpful.

I suppose this depends on how much you want to pursue this and how big the employer is (in terms of whether they will pull the scheme) and impact on the future.

You could write to them threatening to take the next step of an employment tribunal if that is the correct route. I suppose if they pay the wrong rate of SMP (by deducting the childcare vouchers) then you need to speak to HMRC who deal with SMP. Maybe ring the employer's helpline and ask who you can speak to in HMRC to challenge an employer making illegal deductions from SMP.

IQ

jetplane

I suppose ACAS gave you all the help they could because it would appear that whatever you produce to your wife's employer they are not going to decide in her favour.

I can see that you were hoping to provide hard evidence that her employer could not dispute therefore ensuring that they pay out. Unfortunately even when something seems black and white to us and all around us an employer sometimes acts differently and then someone else has to adjudicate.

Therefore you would indeed have to take it to an employment tribunal. The advice to contact your home insurance would be to speak to a specialist employment solicitor and see if they will take the case on for you. A letter from them accompanied with an ET1 (or from yourself) may be what is needed to actually force them to consider your argument.

good luck.

WestonDave

To put the other perspective for a moment - these schemes are sold to employers as a win:win situation. Staff are happy because they get a tax free perk, and it costs the employer nothing because the admin costs come out of a small employer NI saving. Happy staff for free is a no brainer.


Now out of the blue the employer is having to fund extra costs of potentially over £2k during a mat leave (bearing in mind that mat leave isn't any employers favourite anyway!) and its little surprise they are kicking back a bit.


I agree the legal position is that the vouchers should be provided during ML, but there are considerable potential dangers in pursuing that if the employer is insistent AND you need that job for the future. There are a fair few ways that employers can be a right pain in the proverbial to someone that has narked them whilst still remaining within the law - especially in the smaller companies without defined pay or promotion structures (no payrise for a few years?) and which often have more generous approaches to flexibility on time off. For example many employers might be flexible and let an employee come in late due to a school meeting/assembly, or a kids dentist appointment if they make up the time another day maybe by a shorter lunchbreak. If they start insisting on such things being taken as annual leave (unpaid dependants leave could be denied as its not an emergency) then family life gets much less fun. Similarly if she needs changes to hours on return from ML, employers can suddenly find business cases to deny that where they have previously been more relaxed.


So whilst this is a moneysaving site and you have every right to that voucher allocation, make sure you sit down and work out how much you need this job, and how many favours you might need from the employer before you take a pair of size tens and stamp all over any goodwill there might be. If the employer is already a pain in the rear and she can easily move jobs then obviously feel free to go in all guns blazing!

Icequeen99

WestonDave wrote: »

To put the other perspective for a moment - these schemes are sold to employers as a win:win situation. Staff are happy because they get a tax free perk, and it costs the employer nothing because the admin costs come out of a small employer NI saving. Happy staff for free is a no brainer.


Now out of the blue the employer is having to fund extra costs of potentially over £2k during a mat leave (bearing in mind that mat leave isn't any employers favourite anyway!) and its little surprise they are kicking back a bit.


I agree the legal position is that the vouchers should be provided during ML, but there are considerable potential dangers in pursuing that if the employer is insistent AND you need that job for the future. There are a fair few ways that employers can be a right pain in the proverbial to someone that has narked them whilst still remaining within the law - especially in the smaller companies without defined pay or promotion structures (no payrise for a few years?) and which often have more generous approaches to flexibility on time off. For example many employers might be flexible and let an employee come in late due to a school meeting/assembly, or a kids dentist appointment if they make up the time another day maybe by a shorter lunchbreak. If they start insisting on such things being taken as annual leave (unpaid dependants leave could be denied as its not an emergency) then family life gets much less fun. Similarly if she needs changes to hours on return from ML, employers can suddenly find business cases to deny that where they have previously been more relaxed.


So whilst this is a moneysaving site and you have every right to that voucher allocation, make sure you sit down and work out how much you need this job, and how many favours you might need from the employer before you take a pair of size tens and stamp all over any goodwill there might be. If the employer is already a pain in the rear and she can easily move jobs then obviously feel free to go in all guns blazing!

Exactly right, and what I was alluding to above. The OP and his partner need to really think about whether it is worth pursuing given what the consequences could be even though they are probably in the right.

IQ

Reason123

All I am trying to do it get what we are entitled to.
Nothing more nothing less.
My partner loves her job and will certainly be going back.
She has already told me that if the employer wont give in - we have to accept defeat - she does not want to go legal. Even if believe we are in the right..
I was just hoping to provide in black and white that they should continue payments - and they just accepted the fact.

I am having one last ditch effort and contacted the voucher scheme company. (Computershare)
I put my partners employers latest reply to them
--
There are no contracts through (employer) and we simply work to the instructions and terms and conditions Computershare set.
--
So I have asked to see the instructions and terms and conditions.
I would assume that Computershare would be on our side as surely they would like my partners employer to keep paying?

Icequeen99

Reason123 wrote: »

All I am trying to do it get what we are entitled to.
Nothing more nothing less.
My partner loves her job and will certainly be going back.
She has already told me that if the employer wont give in - we have to accept defeat - she does not want to go legal. Even if believe we are in the right..
I was just hoping to provide in black and white that they should continue payments - and they just accepted the fact.

I am having one last ditch effort and contacted the voucher scheme company. (Computershare)
I put my partners employers latest reply to them
--
There are no contracts through (employer) and we simply work to the instructions and terms and conditions Computershare set.
--
So I have asked to see the instructions and terms and conditions.
I would assume that Computershare would be on our side as surely they would like my partners employer to keep paying?

That sounds reasonable. You might also give HMRC a call and see if they can offer any advice.

I can understand why she doesn't want to take action, but equally why you want to try and persuade them.

I think the HMRC guidance that you posted the other day is very clear, so i suspect you might have a difficult job. It sounds like they don't want to pay it and will do what they can to do that.

IQ

bll78

If they're saying there's no contract with the employer, then this must mean that it is a direct agreement between your wife and them doesn't it?
Also just as a side issue, have you calculated the impact having childcare vouchers is having on your wife's maternity pay? It is based upon her earnings now which will not include the childcare vouchers. Depending on her maternity pay arrangements you may be as well stopping them with immediate effect and benefitting from the enhanced Maternity pay.

Takeaway_Addict

Reason123 wrote: »

All I am trying to do it get what we are entitled to.
Nothing more nothing less.
My partner loves her job and will certainly be going back.
She has already told me that if the employer wont give in - we have to accept defeat - she does not want to go legal. Even if believe we are in the right..
I was just hoping to provide in black and white that they should continue payments - and they just accepted the fact.

I am having one last ditch effort and contacted the voucher scheme company. (Computershare)
I put my partners employers latest reply to them
--
There are no contracts through (employer) and we simply work to the instructions and terms and conditions Computershare set.
--
So I have asked to see the instructions and terms and conditions.
I would assume that Computershare would be on our side as surely they would like my partners employer to keep paying?

I think you'll find that even if they accept they have to pay (and they should) that after she goes back the scheme will seriously be considered and could be pulled to stop it happening again. So long term her costs go up as whilst she might get the money instead of vouchers it could cost her nearly £1200 extra a year now.

Not saying its right but its understandable why employers do not go into these schemes as they just don't make sense for the majority of companies.