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RBS has lost all of the taxpayer bailout
Comments
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Thrugelmir wrote: »Relaunching NatWest, Coutts and W&G as separate retail banks would have allowed shares to be sold off. Direct line likewise. Allowing repayment of Government debt.
The bad news simply keeps on coming. RBS is becoming a tainted brand.
Must agree about RBS brand : presumably it will be given to Salmond should the vote be 'yes'.
I would image that there would be a lot of political fallout if Natwest was sold debt free and within a year or so made good profits whilst the taxpayer was lumbered with a huge loss making black hole.
Although that is what happened to NR, RBS is a different case.
And of course that doesn't mean that the taxpayer will be better off although it brings forward some cashflow: a bit like Brown selling the our gold: quick buck at the time, long term loss.EU tariff on agricultual product 12.2%
some dairy products 42.1% cloths 11.4%
EU Clinical Trials Directive stops medical advances0 -
I would image that there would be a lot of political fallout if Natwest was sold debt free and within a year or so made good profits whilst the taxpayer was lumbered with a huge loss making black hole.
Although that is what happened to NR, RBS is a different case.
We are lumbered with a large loss making black hole and haven't we already lost a shed load?"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....
"big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham0 -
I would image that there would be a lot of political fallout if Natwest was sold debt free and within a year or so made good profits whilst the taxpayer was lumbered with a huge loss making black hole.
I was thinking along the lines that Lloyds have done with TSB. Split Nat West away from the group making it financially independent as a subsidiary in the process. Appoint it's own board. Then let it settle until such time as it was in a position to fly unaided.
NatWest would have been impacted by the same problems as the other UK banks i.e. PPI. So profitability wouldn't have been good.
All the UK taxpayer sees at the moment is a black hole. With no doubt more write offs to come.0 -
....I would image that there would be a lot of political fallout if Natwest was sold debt free and within a year or so made good profits whilst the taxpayer was lumbered with a huge loss making black hole.
Although that is what happened to NR, RBS is a different case.
....
But that isn't what happened with NR.
NRAM is not a "huge loss making black hole". It's actually quite profitable.0 -
NRAM is not a "huge loss making black hole". It's actually quite profitable.
Yet to be wound up though, with years to go. With NR and B&B the toxic debt will be found when the mortgages come to redemption.
Last reported figures were average debt of £167,000 on an LTV of 75%. Majority being on interest only basis.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »Yet to be wound up though, with years to go. With NR and B&B the toxic debt will be found when the mortgages come to redemption. .......
Even if that was true, by the time the years have gone, and the 'toxic debt' has emerged, the profits earned in the meantime will be more than enough to swallow the remaining dribs and drabs.
NRAM made £630m after tax in the first 3 qtrs of 2013. Which is about £9 billion more than RBS managed.:)0 -
Even if that was true, by the time the years have gone, and the 'toxic debt' has emerged, the profits earned in the meantime will be more than enough to swallow the remaining dribs and drabs.
NRAM made £630m after tax in the first 3 qtrs of 2013. Which is about £9 billion more than RBS managed.:)
At June there was still £75 billion of debt on the balance sheet. With some 550,000 mortgages. A larger mortgage book than entire RBS operation combined. RBS has lost £42 billion since nationalisation.
So let's watch events unfold.0 -
Thrugelmir wrote: »I was thinking along the lines that Lloyds have done with TSB. Split Nat West away from the group making it financially independent as a subsidiary in the process. Appoint it's own board. Then let it settle until such time as it was in a position to fly unaided.
NatWest would have been impacted by the same problems as the other UK banks i.e. PPI. So profitability wouldn't have been good.
All the UK taxpayer sees at the moment is a black hole. With no doubt more write offs to come.
none of these right offs have increased any taxpayer loses
non of the loses have increased taxpayer loses
they may have delayed the time when / if the taxpayer makes a profit but so what?EU tariff on agricultual product 12.2%
some dairy products 42.1% cloths 11.4%
EU Clinical Trials Directive stops medical advances0 -
But that isn't what happened with NR.
NRAM is not a "huge loss making black hole". It's actually quite profitable.
my reference to NR was that it was split into two: not that it was a black hole.
in reality it never was truly insolvent ; it just needed time to resolve it's cash flow problems due to the shortage of inter bank lending.EU tariff on agricultual product 12.2%
some dairy products 42.1% cloths 11.4%
EU Clinical Trials Directive stops medical advances0 -
none of these right offs have increased any taxpayer loses
non of the loses have increased taxpayer loses
they may have delayed the time when / if the taxpayer makes a profit but so what?
From a business perspective the good bank could be well advanced. Seems as if management time is concentrated on bad bank.
When Fred the Shred bought Nat West it was struggling. All RBS did though was to stream line it. As with all the banks that were bought investment in new technology was minimal. Part of the reason for the recent failures. The old legacy systems are struggling to cope with the demands of 24/7 banking. When it finally emerges. Nat West may at a serious disadvantage in the market. As
new entrants are already starting to emerge. Likewise Lloyds has a head start having resolved its own problems.0
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